Smoking banned near playgrounds...effective Thursday

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

WOW jump right to guns, what about gun toting Nazis looking to Godwin people?



We are talking about smoking currently.


I don't have the answers. He brought up banning smoking on TV, I thought is was a good idea. Perhaps ban it till a certain hour.

I do know that smoking is bad.

and video games and rock music.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

If your 2-8 year-olds are watching Mad Men, then you and your significant other should be sterilized and your children should be taken away from you.

So your argument is what exactly? Kids that are between the ages of 2-8 are likely to be influenced by seeing other people smoke, but kids in the 12-15 age range (who absolutely do watch Mad Men) aren't? I've never even heard of 2-8 year olds smoking so who are we trying to kid here?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Ark2

So your argument is what exactly? Kids that are between the ages of 2-8 are likely to be influenced by seeing other people smoke, but kids in the 12-15 age range (who absolutely do watch Mad Men) aren't? I've never even heard of 2-8 year olds smoking so who are we trying to kid here?

[ResAlien]

A whopping five meters? Wow how will anyone ever survive walking a whole 7 or 8 extra steps to smoke. It's a nice symbolic gesture of a law though, I'm sure it will make a massive difference.

[Northendzone]

fianlly, someone has thought of the children

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If one person gets a ticket it for smoking at a field it will have far exceeded the enforcement of the distracted driving law.

I don't know what it's like in Alberta but in B.C. you quite often see two cops at a radar trap, one with a radar gun and another with a monocular watching for people without seat belts on or their cell phones glued to their ear.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Dion

......or the one.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am fine with banning smoking on TV.

If we agree "smoking is stupid" what is wrong with making the "pariahs".

At least you are consistant with your approach to smoking, I disagree with bans in general but your position is logical.

I don't think we should be making smokers pariahs because people are allowed to be stupid.

Based on this logic everyone who consumes pop and junk food should be turned into a pariah and its consumption should be banned around playgrounds. Obesity is quickly becoming the number 1 preventable cause of death so lets get on it.

As with everything else we should tax the impact of the persons choice on society at a level that corresponds to the cost to society and let them do it in a manner than causes little harm to society. We don't need to restrict people and force conformance.

[moon]

12-15 year olds watch Mad Men?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

At least you are consistant with your approach to smoking, I disagree with bans in general but your position is logical.

I don't think we should be making smokers pariahs because people are allowed to be stupid.

Based on this logic everyone who consumes pop and junk food should be turned into a pariah and its consumption should be banned around playgrounds. Obesity is quickly becoming the number 1 preventable cause of death so lets get on it.

As with everything else we should tax the impact of the persons choice on society at a level that corresponds to the cost to society and let them do it in a manner than causes little harm to society. We don't need to restrict people and force conformance.

Oh #### yeah. I think there needs to be a significant change in culture. There is an acceptance of fat (I hate that term) people. There should be an acceptance of healthy body types (Ectomorph, Endomorph, Mesoporh). We currently accept unhealthy body types, generally Edno/Ecto.

[Neeper]

How about thinking of these bans as sowing the seeds of a culture change than punishing smokers?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Oh #### yeah. I think there needs to be a significant change in culture. There is an acceptance of fat (I hate that term) people. There should be an acceptance of healthy body types (Ectomorph, Endomorph, Mesoporh). We currently accept unhealthy body types, generally Edno/Ecto.

See this is where we disagree. You (i am trying not to put words in your mouth) believe that the government should work to create a better society of healthier people whereas I believe that people should behave how they want to provided they pay for the impacts of there choices.

I don't think we should try to change culture. Educate people on their choices so they know the facts about the decisions they make, let them make their own decisions, have them pay for the societal impact of their decision.

[getbak]

If I can't smoke at a playground, how will I be able to let the single soccer moms know that I'm a cool rebel?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

See this is where we disagree. You (i am trying not to put words in your mouth) believe that the government should work to create a better society of healthier people whereas I believe that people should behave how they want to provided they pay for the impacts of there choices.

I don't think we should try to change culture. Educate people on their choices so they know the facts about the decisions they make, let them make their own decisions, have them pay for the societal impact of their decision.

But people don't pay more. If we use Obesity for example, does an obese person in Canada pay more for primary healthcare than a non-obese person. I don't think they do, yet their use of the healthcare system is generally greater. Do you think obese people should pay for primary healthcare in Canda?

When you "educate people" isn't that going to create a "change" in "culture"? I would think it is.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But people don't pay more. If we use Obesity for example, does an obese person in Canada pay more for primary healthcare than a non-obese person. I don't think they do, yet their use of the healthcare system is generally greater. Do you think obese people should pay for primary healthcare in Canda?

When you "educate people" isn't that going to create a "change" in "culture"? I would think it is.

Yes smokers and drinkers do. Both of those are taxed heavily by the government to subsidize their impact on the health care system later in life. Now, what the government actually does with that extra tax money who knows, but it is supposed to go to the health care system.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Yes smokers and drinkers do. Both of those are taxed heavily by the government to subsidize their impact on the health care system later in life. Now, what the government actually does with that extra tax money who knows, but it is supposed to go to the health care system.

I know that, but my question was for non-smoking, non-drinking (or very rare drinking) obese persons.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I know that, but my question was for non-smoking, non-drinking (or very rare drinking) obese persons.

Im not sure, but obese people shouldn't be allowed to eat their cheezy puffs and pork rinds near playgrounds anymore.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But people don't pay more. If we use Obesity for example, does an obese person in Canada pay more for primary healthcare than a non-obese person. I don't think they do, yet their use of the healthcare system is generally greater. Do you think obese people should pay for primary healthcare in Canda?

When you "educate people" isn't that going to create a "change" in "culture"? I would think it is.

I do think we should have a tax system that taxes unhealthy choices. I am in favour of a "junk food tax" (however difficult to administer) provided its goal is cost recovery and not to change behaviour.

I see education as a passive change in culture vs. an active change in culture You educate people so that they can make an informed choices. You do not care what choice they make in the end just that they have wieghted the pros and cons and made an choice. So in terms of smoking rather than ban smoking outright (forced culture changed) you educate people on the risks and let them choose. If they choose to continue to smoke you charge them appropriately for it and don't judge them for it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do think we should have a tax system that taxes unhealthy choices. I am in favour of a "junk food tax" (however difficult to administer) provided its goal is cost recovery and not to change behaviour.

I see education as a passive change in culture vs. an active change in culture You educate people so that they can make an informed choices. You do not care what choice they make in the end just that they have wieghted the pros and cons and made an choice. So in terms of smoking rather than ban smoking outright (forced culture changed) you educate people on the risks and let them choose. If they choose to continue to smoke you charge them appropriately for it and don't judge them for it.

Maybe we should do both, tax junk food and educate.

[CaptainYooh]

The cost impact of smoking and obesity on the public health system is not known. Smokers and obese people usually die earlier than non-smokers and non-obese people; thus, relieving the health system of the most expensive nursing home years of those in their 80's and 90's, when the health care costs are peaking.

I just really hate nanny-state bans such as this one (for the record, I quit smoking 15 years ago). Almost each and every one of Orwell's predictions are coming true. Governments don't know what's good for you and by telling us what's good they take away people's ability to think critically and to decide for themselves. History proves it over and over again. Witches and heretics were burned at stake for the good of the people too based on the best quality research and advice available to the rulers in those times.