Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The gun was in his waist not a traditional holster or shoulder holster.

Lie on your back with a gun in your waist band, pull it out and then bring it up its at the natural position to either do a chest shot or under the chin shot.

Sounds easy, now have a thug kid sit on your chest and ground and pound you, and then see how easy it is.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

A little more insignificant than a bullet through the heart.

So?

You are not expected to sit there and trade blows of equal severity with an attacker. If you have a reasonable belief your life might be threatened or that you might experience severe bodily harm, you have the right to respond with lethal force. The exact same laws exist in Canada.

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I still find it hArd to believe he was able to pull a gun from his holster or whatever and get it to angle to shoot someone through the heart, after such a severe grounding and pounding. I mean he should have been concussed after that beat down and how exactly do you get a gun in position to shoot straight when someone is on your chest?

I really don't see what's unbelievable about this? Trayvon was suppossedly kneeling over top of Zimmerman. Zimmerman would have pulled the gun from his waistband and shot up and at Martin. The bullet went through his lung and into his heart. It did not go through his heart.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

A little more insignificant than a bullet through the heart.

I still find it hArd to believe he was able to pull a gun from his holster or whatever and get it to angle to shoot someone through the heart, after such a severe grounding and pounding. I mean he should have been concussed after that beat down and how exactly do you get a gun in position to shoot straight when someone is on your chest?

Do you even actually know what a 'ground and pound' sort of move is? Because from what I've been reading of your posts, you seem to think it's something more akin to 'missionary position'...

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

African Americans in the US have a lot in common with Natives in Canada...

Both make up the vast majority of prisoners of their respective countries.
Both have had prior histories of being treated inferior by the majority.

I'll stop there is point 2 the root cause?

And women.

Women have been treated as second class citizens for hundreds of years in this country, and have been treated and are still treated as inferior by the majority.

What I see from these message boards is the usual on any message board in America- some people trying to be ultra liberal- overusing the race card. Some people who are actually looking at this situation and discussing it with intelligence and having a healthy debate, and then some people who obviously think that blacks are inferior to whites.

My point is this- this case is not about race. ZIMMERMAN IS NOT WHITE. Sheesh, if you live in this country, you know that Hispanics are profiled and judged all the time- like blacks, NAs, women, etc. Zimmerman was probably trigger happy and Martin was probably walking around with a chip on his shoulder which ended up in a tragic situation which could have been avoided- the problem here is once again, a gun. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun I doubt he'd be so gung-ho on following Martin in the first place. If he didn't have a gun, maybe no one would have been killed, or maybe the police would have gotten there in time to help Zimmerman from getting the crap beat out of him. I really hate that people are making this about race.

The race card is getting really old. Again, the friggen testimony as well as FACTS show that race did not factor in this situation and people, the media AND the President are making it be something it's not- a spectacle to talk about how racist this country is. For every single person who talks about a travesty that happens to a black male, I can mention 3 that have happened to a person because she was a woman. Put the race card face down on the table and talk about the real issues, it's boring.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

The only problem you have with your posts is that you blanket believe that Trayvon was the instigator. No one knows who was the instigator except Zimmerman. Trayvon jumping on Zimmerman fits the evidence, but so does Zimmerman attacking Trayvon and then getting his ass handed to him. You seem to think that the first scenario is indisputable. Like I said there wasn't enough evidence to convict, but Zimmerman bears some responsibility for the death of a 17 yr old kid no matter who started the fight.

He stated TM attacked Z, he was either there, or there was evidence to prove his statement, which I must have missed. I asked him but once again he is unable to back up his wild tales.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

A little more insignificant than a bullet through the heart.

I still find it hArd to believe he was able to pull a gun from his holster or whatever and get it to angle to shoot someone through the heart, after such a severe grounding and pounding. I mean he should have been concussed after that beat down and how exactly do you get a gun in position to shoot straight when someone is on your chest?

Shouldn't the fact Martin died be enough to make you believe? The guy pulled a gun at close range and fired. You really think his goal was to hit the heart?

Maybe research the trial to find out how exactly the evidence supported Zimmerman's account of the killing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

The only problem you have with your posts is that you blanket believe that Trayvon was the instigator. No one knows who was the instigator except Zimmerman. Trayvon jumping on Zimmerman fits the evidence, but so does Zimmerman attacking Trayvon and then getting his ass handed to him. You seem to think that the first scenario is indisputable. Like I said there wasn't enough evidence to convict, but Zimmerman bears some responsibility for the death of a 17 yr old kid no matter who started the fight.

Honestly, when a guy with no self-defense skills walks around the neighbourhood with a gun looking for bad guys, suspicious behaviour, and following people, there was only one way this could have ended... and that is with someone dead.

While he might not be "guilty" in a legal sense, I don't see how anyone can defend him and the decisions he made. Zimmerman and people like him are a problem.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Emerging from the shadows to help a family in crisis? The guy is practically Batman at this point. He's the Dark-But-Kinda-White-So-We'll-Just-Go-Ahead-And-Call-Him-White Knight.

He isn't white!

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Do you even actually know what a 'ground and pound' sort of move is? Because from what I've been reading of your posts, you seem to think it's something more akin to 'missionary position'...

Yes I do. Why don't you strap on your GI Joe toy gun, lie on the ground and have someone sit on your chest, ground and pound top position, and see how easy it is to pull your gun from your waistband and shoot that person in the chest, then get back to me.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honestly, when a guy with no self-defense skills walks around the neighbourhood with a gun looking for bad guys, suspicious behaviour, and following people, there was only one way this could have ended... and that is with someone dead.

While he might not be "guilty" in a legal sense, I don't see how anyone can defend him and the decisions he made. Zimmerman and people like him are a problem.

Easily, if someone believes his story or at least realize it's within the realm of possibility, then he was defending himself. Poor decisions does not take away someones right to defend themselves, that's my belief, and if that's what happened here I'd defend Zimmerman. Of course we don't know what really happened.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Shouldn't the fact Martin died be enough to make you believe? The guy pulled a gun at close range and fired. You really think his goal was to hit the heart?

Maybe research the trial to find out how exactly the evidence supported Zimmerman's account of the killing.

If I research the trial will I find the part where they proved TM attacked Z, like you said?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

He isn't white!

He's half white, has a white last name, looks white so he's white in my books

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

He isn't white!

Tell that to NBC!
And that was my point

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

He's half white, has a white last name, looks white so he's white in my books

Honey, in this country 'half white' doesn't mean a thing. Obama is 'half white.' Tiger said he was half Asian and got shunned because of it. You're either white, or something else.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Yes I do. Why don't you strap on your GI Joe toy gun, lie on the ground and have someone sit on your chest, ground and pound top position, and see how easy it is to pull your gun from your waistband and shoot that person in the chest, then get back to me.

It's quite easy, actually. Since the gun would be around my belt range, it's a very small number of moves to grab my gun, point it "upwards" and squeeze the trigger. No aim required, even. Just get it clear of the holster and point it up. I doubt that Zimmerman was aiming for anything. I think he just managed to hit the heart.

Of course, being a 3rd degree brown belt in Kempo, my opinion might be a bit biased.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

And women.

Women have been treated as second class citizens for hundreds of years in this country, and have been treated and are still treated as inferior by the majority.

What I see from these message boards is the usual on any message board in America- some people trying to be ultra liberal- overusing the race card. Some people who are actually looking at this situation and discussing it with intelligence and having a healthy debate, and then some people who obviously think that blacks are inferior to whites.

My point is this- this case is not about race. ZIMMERMAN IS NOT WHITE. Sheesh, if you live in this country, you know that Hispanics are profiled and judged all the time- like blacks, NAs, women, etc. Zimmerman was probably trigger happy and Martin was probably walking around with a chip on his shoulder which ended up in a tragic situation which could have been avoided- the problem here is once again, a gun. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun I doubt he'd be so gung-ho on following Martin in the first place. If he didn't have a gun, maybe no one would have been killed, or maybe the police would have gotten there in time to help Zimmerman from getting the crap beat out of him. I really hate that people are making this about race.

The race card is getting really old. Again, the friggen testimony as well as FACTS show that race did not factor in this situation and people, the media AND the President are making it be something it's not- a spectacle to talk about how racist this country is. For every single person who talks about a travesty that happens to a black male, I can mention 3 that have happened to a person because she was a woman. Put the race card face down on the table and talk about the real issues, it's boring.

Imagine if Zimmerman was a woman...

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Imagine if Zimmerman was a woman...

Why? For more theoretical conversation about what she may or may not have done or what she may or may not have been thinking? It's not worth it- like so many things in this thread- it didn't happen.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

It's quite easy, actually. Since the gun would be around my belt range, it's a very small number of moves to grab my gun, point it "upwards" and squeeze the trigger. No aim required, even. Just get it clear of the holster and point it up. I doubt that Zimmerman was aiming for anything. I think he just managed to hit the heart.

Of course, being a 3rd degree brown belt in Kempo, my opinion might be a bit biased.

Ok, so pretend you are 1 out of 10 MMA skilled instead of 3rd degree brown belt, now how easy?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

If I research the trial will I find the part where they proved TM attacked Z, like you said?

Hello! Hello! Is this thing on?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Yes I do. Why don't you strap on your GI Joe toy gun, lie on the ground and have someone sit on your chest, ground and pound top position, and see how easy it is to pull your gun from your waistband and shoot that person in the chest, then get back to me.

I doubt Martin was on his chest, more likely his lower abdomen, like what you would typically see in the UFC. You don't want to sit on someone's chest, that is too high up and somewhat harder land punches while easier for the guy at bottom to reach around your body and hold you closer.

And since he was most likely on the abdomen, a gun in the hand of the person being mounted would easily point up and through the chest area.