Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Hence the apology.

Ok cool.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

You're crazy.

What do you call it?

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I am really torn on this. Zimmerman thought someone was suspicious (based on Martin looking at a house that Zimmerman knew was someone else's and Martin quickly looking around) and called the police. I think that was reasonable. I am pretty confident police are called routinely for innocuous behaviour. Zimmerman's perspective was based on knowledge of criminal activity in the area.
Anyway, it appears that Martin circled back and confronted Zimmerman and as a result of something, Zimmerman was forced to shoot Martin.
I don't see that there was a race issue here at all, both people could have been any color for this to occur.

I don't understand why you take his word for it. He is a proven liar:

http://gawker.com/5915139/george-zim...urn-to-custody

Why did Zimmerman get out of his car? He was looking for a confrontation (not necessarily a physical one, but one nonetheless). I learned long ago that it's better to walk away and avoid a fight. He bears at least some burden/responsibility of Martin's death. Stand your ground should not apply outside of one's home/car it goes against everything we are taught about walking away from a fight. Based on current laws and evidence he is most likely not criminally liable, however if being a stupid jackass was against the law he would be a lifer.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

however if being a stupid jackass was against the law he would be a lifer.

So would a pretty decent chunk of the North American population...

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

What do you call it?

Seems like the courts decided it was a justified shooting - they saw the evidence in a much granular level than you and I ever could, so my opinion is just speculation.

If I have to label it.. a tragic set of circumstances that ended with horrible consequences for both sides and who I'm sure would act differently if they could start over.

A man lost his life at the hands of another but I wouldn't call this murder.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

I don't understand why you take his word for it. He is a proven liar:

http://gawker.com/5915139/george-zim...urn-to-custodyHe was looking for a confrontation (not necessarily a physical one, but one nonetheless).

Did he actually confront Trayvon? From what I read it was Trayvon that confronted Zimmerman.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Did he actually confront Trayvon? From what I read it was Trayvon that confronted Zimmerman.

It depends on who you ask. The side that thinks Zimmerman murdered Martin says Zimmerman confronted and provoked him. The other side says that Zimmerman was jumped by Martin.

No one besides Zimmerman actually knows the answer.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

It depends on who you ask. The side that thinks Zimmerman murdered Martin says Zimmerman confronted and provoked him. The other side says that Zimmerman was jumped by Martin.

No one besides Zimmerman actually knows the answer.

I don't know the answer either, but i know it could have been avoided by Zimmerman staying in his car. What reason did he give for getting out?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

The difference is I said one thing and not the other, did you go to the nag waza school of internet discussions?
Anyway, What do you call it?

I call it not guilty of murder, murder 2, manslaughter, etc. on account of the fact that there is no evidence to say otherwise. If I had to give an opinion on what I think he did, I think he was justified in defending himself. I will ask again, what is the difference between saying that Zimmerman killed Martin in "cold blood" versus saying that Zimmerman is a murderer? As I see it, a murderer and a cold blooded killer are the same thing, so please explain to me why you disagree.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

I don't know the answer either, but i know it could have been avoided by Zimmerman staying in his car. What reason did he give for getting out?

So he could give an accurate description of Martin to the 911 dispatcher (ie. what he looks like, where he is located, what he is doing)?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Seems like the courts decided it was a justified shooting - they saw the evidence in a much granular level than you and I ever could, so my opinion is just speculation.

If I have to label it.. a tragic set of circumstances that ended with horrible consequences for both sides and who I'm sure would act differently if they could start over.

A man lost his life at the hands of another but I wouldn't call this murder.

So if this had happened in Canada, it would be murder, but because it happened in a place that doesn't value human life as much, Florida, it is a justified shooting (resulting in death)?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I call it not guilty of murder, murder 2, manslaughter, etc. on account of the fact that there is no evidence to say otherwise. If I had to give an opinion on what I think he did, I think he was justified in defending himself. I will ask again, what is the difference between saying that Zimmerman killed Martin in "cold blood" versus saying that Zimmerman is a murderer? As I see it, a murderer and a cold blooded killer are the same thing, so please explain to me why you disagree.

My interpretation of in cold blood, is murder without provocation, that,s why I wouldn't call it that. Unlike you dummies who want to call it what the courts verdict ended up being, I am calling it the way I see it, murder.

Even, though I would not argue against someone who wanted to call it cold blooded murder, I just wouldn't call it that at this time.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So if this had happened in Canada, it would be murder, but because it happened in a place that doesn't value human life as much, Florida, it is a justified shooting (resulting in death)?

I think I understand the issue now. You don't actually understand the definition of murder.

No, if this happened in Canada, it would not be murder.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So if this had happened in Canada, it would be murder, but because it happened in a place that doesn't value human life as much, Florida, it is a justified shooting (resulting in death)?

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

You can't back up your claims can you? The best you did was say start at post x. Once again, I ask you, back up your claims.

Originally Posted by DuffMan

The difference is I said one thing and not the other, did you go to the nag waza school of internet discussions?
Anyway, What do you call it?

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Ok cool.

Originally Posted by DuffMan

What do you call it?

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So if this had happened in Canada, it would be murder, but because it happened in a place that doesn't value human life as much, Florida, it is a justified shooting (resulting in death)?

Originally Posted by DuffMan

My interpretation of in cold blood, is murder without provocation, that,s why I wouldn't call it that. Unlike you dummies who want to call it what the courts verdict ended up being, I am calling it the way I see it, murder.

Even, though I would not argue against someone who wanted to call it cold blooded murder, I just wouldn't call it that at this time.

You're trolling would be much less annoying if you'd use the multi-quote feature.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

My interpretation of in cold blood, is murder without provocation, that,s why I wouldn't call it that. Unlike you dummies who want to call it what the courts verdict ended up being, I am calling it the way I see it, murder.

Even, though I would not argue against someone who wanted to call it cold blooded murder, I just wouldn't call it that at this time.

Your interpretation is stretched so far that I can't believe that your hamstrings haven't exploded.

And calling people dummies who agree with the court verdicts is way over the top.

It wasn't murder based on the definition agreed to by the jury and by the verdict.

You, I and everyone else have no clue what happened between the time that Zimmerman was asked to stop following and seems to have to go back and meet the cops, and the witness description of Martin on top of Zimmerman physically attacking him.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Did he actually confront Trayvon? From what I read it was Trayvon that confronted Zimmerman.

Based on the evidence, Zimmerman was walking back to his car upon instruction by the police while Martin was on the phone with his friend walking home himself. The defense tried to prove that Martin instead of going home turned around and circled back to where the confrontation took place. The prosecution basically gave up and seemed to accept this.

The big issue is that since the facts surrounding the attack are somewhat up in the air and once the media bashed Zimmerman as being a racist then this must mean Martin was attacked my Zimmerman. Since then the allegations have been proven baseless, yet look how many people are so passionate against Zimmerman. I don't see this case being that complicated at all; I am perplexed by the attention given to the case.

Even if Zimmerman was the most racist guy in the world, he still called the police to report what he thought was a suspicious person, Martin, as was proven in court, should have walked home or called the cops himself if he thought a creepy guy was following him. Attacking Zimmerman proved to be a fatal mistake.

All this attention focused on racism has really diminished what benefits the publicity this case has brought up: There is far too much violence, and violence has become a 'reasonable' outlet for much of the youth in the States. Chicago alone had something like fifty shootings on father's day.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Even if Zimmerman was the most racist guy in the world, he still called the police to report what he thought was a suspicious person, Martin, as was proven in court, should have walked home or called the cops himself if he thought a creepy guy was following him. ... I am perplexed by the attention given to the case.

The reason so many people feel so passionately about this case is that where you keep using the word "suspicious" to describe Trayvon Martin, most people recognize that the word you should use is "black."

Zimmerman saw a black person and his mind immediately decided that black=suspicious. This is not really racism, it's just the nature of things in the United States.

It's what Obama addressed in his comments the other day, it's why Martin turned around to confront Zimmerman. It's the reason LeVar Burton has to hang his hands outside his car if he gets stopped by the police so he doesn't get shot.

If Martin was white, Zimmerman sees a teenager. Because he's black he sees a suspicious person. That is a huge, huge problem and is the reason why so many people are upset about this case.

Zimmerman is not racist, he's just American, and that's what's wrong.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by driveway

The reason so many people feel so passionately about this case is that where you keep using the word "suspicious" to describe Trayvon Martin, most people recognize that the word you should use is "black."

Zimmerman saw a black person and his mind immediately decided that black=suspicious. This is not really racism, it's just the nature of things in the United States.

It's what Obama addressed in his comments the other day, it's why Martin turned around to confront Zimmerman. It's the reason LeVar Burton has to hang his hands outside his car if he gets stopped by the police so he doesn't get shot.

If Martin was white, Zimmerman sees a teenager. Because he's black he sees a suspicious person. That is a huge, huge problem and is the reason why so many people are upset about this case.

Zimmerman is not racist, he's just American, and that's what's wrong.

Zimmerman said in the call to the Police non emergency line when asked about the race of the suspicious person, "I believe his black" this suggests he wasn't sure the race of the suspicious person and puts racial profiling or even offender profiling into doubt.

[4X4]

I don't know why I'm reading this thread anymore. Nobody is convincing their opposing sides of anything. It's gone full circle about 8 times now.