Flames Development Camp July 10th - 16th

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I'd love to see us trade our first round pick in 2014 with Florida for their first round pick so that we could at least really put our hearts into cheering for wins.

That'd be awesome!

It would probably take a boozy poker game with a bunch of GM's to eventually degenerate into a pissing contest, but I like Feaster's moxie. I'd like that it would give him another excuse to surprise our divisional rivals with a faster team succeeding with more 'buy in' into Hartley's system & assignments. Worked for Stajan...?

As much as I would love an even higher draft pick next year, I think even mediocre skilled teams can be .500 if they play team defense and are dreaded by their opponents. Trust me, it works in beer league.

[MissTeeks]

@FAN960Jason: #Flames AGM John Weisbrod joins us right now on @Sportsnet960.

@FAN960Jason: Weisbrod on #Flames D-camp: "The thing that jumps out is the depth of talent we have now. How much better the talent has gotten."

[PeteMoss]

Regarding Monahan and the 67s - they will trade him if they are awful this year (they'll likely trade him even if they are average). They traded away Cody Ceci (1st rounder of Ottawa last year) who's a local kid... they'll move Monahan. If Brian Kilrea was still there you might have had a situation where he wouldn't trade him, but they also likely wouldn't be this bad if he was still there.

[cDnStealth]

Thanks for the write ups Caged. I am really starting to get excited for a potential line of Baertschi-Monahan-Gaudreau.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Being a witness to it all, so that when the Flames win the cup again, the Fans that stuck through and showed up to the games will be the ones with tears in their eyes remembering how tough that journey was.

That was...beautiful.

[Canada 02]

Weisbrod on the FAN

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

[Canada 02]

Is Monahan ready? The garbage baseball talk ends at the 7:30 mark

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

[Canada 02]

Roger Millions likes the Jankowski pick more and more

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Roger Millions likes the Jankowski pick more and more

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

Thank you for posting! Nicely done Roger.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Roger Millions likes the Jankowski pick more and more

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

Interesting that he thinks Seiloff is going to have a long look at camp this year. He suggests that the preferred development path for him might be to start him off as a 7th d-man and then gradually increase his role.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I think we know what Burrows and Kesler will do....

Not necessarily... Their options include biting, diving, turtling, and whining to/hiding behind refs. Really there is a lot of unknown there...

[Caged Great]

Profiles of Jankowski and Harrison are now up. I'll be writing up Klimchuk, Poirier, and Knight next.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by blah blah

He could still play the World Juniors even if he stuck with the Flames. It's not like they'll be battling for a playoff spot and needing every bit of help they can get.

Hypothetical situation... Suppose the Flames letting Monahan go back to play in the WJC bumps Jankowski off Team Canada (i.e. only one of Monahan or Jankowski makes the team).

Who would you want on Team Canada from a development standpoint Monahan or Jankowski? Who would benefit the most from the experience?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hypothetical situation... Suppose the Flames letting Monahan go back to play in the WJC bumps Jankowski off Team Canada (i.e. only one of Monahan or Jankowski makes the team).

Who would you want on Team Canada from a development standpoint Monahan or Jankowski? Who would benefit the most from the experience?

Monahan on the Flames
Jankowski on team Canada

Easily.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hypothetical situation... Suppose the Flames letting Monahan go back to play in the WJC bumps Jankowski off Team Canada (i.e. only one of Monahan or Jankowski makes the team).

Who would you want on Team Canada from a development standpoint Monahan or Jankowski? Who would benefit the most from the experience?

or hire Tonya Harding to take out a different center so they can both play

[kehatch]

I wrote a blog in an attempt to balance some of the enthusiasm regarding our prospects. I really like what the Flames have done with the system over a short period of time. But I think people need to be cautious in expecting a top 6 of Baertschi-Monahan-Gaudreau / Klimchuk-Jankowski-Poirier (as an example) in the near future (or really ever).

I remember Edmonton fan's anointing players like Cogliano, Gagner, and Paajarvi as the future of their franchise. Lets not be Edmonton fans.

In my opinion the Flames have a number of options developing at a number of positions (including players with RFA status):

Gaudreau---NONE---NONE
Baertschi, Klimchuk---Monahan, Jankowski, Granlund---Poirier
Agostino---Kinght, Horak, Backlund, Arnold---Galiardi
Elson---Reinhart, Bouma---Harrison, Elson

NONE
Brodie, Wotherspoon, Culkin
Ramage, Butler, Russell, Billins, Sieloff, Cundari, Breen, Roy, Kulak, Kanzig

Gilles, Brossoit
Ortio, Berra

That might be a slightly cautious projection of our prospects. But people should keep in mind that many of our prospects won't meet their draft day potential and many others won't play meaningful games in the NHL. (Gagner was a 6-overall pick and to many Edmonton fans he was ABSOLUTELY going to be a top line player)

The Flames are going to have to hope some players exceed projections, that they get more support in the draft (preferably in the form of top 3 picks), that they have enough prospects gain value that they can be in the conversation next time an elite player becomes available, and that they can fill in the gaps via trade and free agency.

But that is going to take time. Perhaps a lot of time. The Flames don't have much of a foundation to build on.

The moral of the post being: Be excited, its is exciting times and the Flames are finally moving in the right direction. But also be patient, there is a long bumpy road ahead and anyone expecting a quick turn around will be disappointed.

Full blog here if anyone wants to read it: http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community...the-prospects/

[goodyear]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Kenny Agostino in the hot seat.

After watching this and seeing his solid play over camp, I'm rooting for the guy. I think he's hilarious in this interview, too funny. The part about the chemical engineering program at Yale was great.

Haha, that was my question @ 1:00!

I'm Yennek Onitsoga
or...Kenny Agostino

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Hypothetical situation... Suppose the Flames letting Monahan go back to play in the WJC bumps Jankowski off Team Canada (i.e. only one of Monahan or Jankowski makes the team).

Who would you want on Team Canada from a development standpoint Monahan or Jankowski? Who would benefit the most from the experience?

I think Jankowski would benefit more from playing on Team Canada.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I wrote a blog in an attempt to balance some of the enthusiasm regarding our prospects. I really like what the Flames have done with the system over a short period of time. But I think people need to be cautious in expecting a top 6 of Baertschi-Monahan-Gaudreau / Klimchuk-Jankowski-Poirier (as an example) in the near future (or really ever).

I remember Edmonton fan's anointing players like Cogliano, Gagner, and Paajarvi as the future of their franchise. Lets not be Edmonton fans.

In my opinion the Flames have a number of options developing at a number of positions (including players with RFA status):

Gaudreau---NONE---NONE
Baertschi, Klimchuk---Monahan, Jankowski, Granlund---Poirier
Agostino---Kinght, Horak, Backlund, Arnold---Galiardi
Elson---Reinhart, Bouma---Harrison, Elson

NONE
Brodie, Wotherspoon, Culkin
Ramage, Butler, Russell, Billins, Sieloff, Cundari, Breen, Roy, Kulak, Kanzig

Gilles, Brossoit
Ortio, Berra

That might be a slightly cautious projection of our prospects. But people should keep in mind that many of our prospects won't meet their draft day potential and many others won't play meaningful games in the NHL. (Gagner was a 6-overall pick and to many Edmonton fans he was ABSOLUTELY going to be a top line player)

The Flames are going to have to hope some players exceed projections, that they get more support in the draft (preferably in the form of top 3 picks), that they have enough prospects gain value that they can be in the conversation next time an elite player becomes available, and that they can fill in the gaps via trade and free agency.

But that is going to take time. Perhaps a lot of time. The Flames don't have much of a foundation to build on.

The moral of the post being: Be excited, its is exciting times and the Flames are finally moving in the right direction. But also be patient, there is a long bumpy road ahead and anyone expecting a quick turn around will be disappointed.

The moral of your post is keep the razor blades away from you. There's being pessimistic, then there is what you just posted. Wow, reading that made me want to go take up watching Brazilian soccer. At least watching there the be-headings and quarterings take place on the pitch.

You could look at things completely differently, using the projections of players made by the experts prior to the recent draft, and come up with a vastly different take. For example, Monahan was almost unanimously identified as a future top line center, in the mold of Toews or Staal. Very few had him identified as a number two center, and those that did identified him as an elite second line center. That was considered his downside. I'm not saying I personally buy that, but that was the projections by the vast majority of the hockey community. So using that as a baseline and a comparison for certain players you could very easily make the follow observations using your schema.

Gaudreau---Monahan, Jankowski---NONE
Baertschi, Agostino ---Backlund, Granlund, Knight ---Poirier
Klimchuk---Reinhart, Horak, Arnold---Galiardi
Elson---Reinhart, Bouma---Harrison

Jankowski was every bit as good as Monahan in this camp and they are less than two months apart in age. If Monahan is that good, so is Jankowski. They both showed very well in a very competitive camp that you shouldn't be leaning toward their downside but instead leaning toward them achieving their upside. In fact, the vast majority of players exceeded expectations and should have you leaning towards them over-achieving. The only players that were possibly a little disappointing to me were Klimchuk and Poirier, but that can be expected when they are arriving at their first pro-camp. Wait and see what they do in the fall before writing them off as under-achievers or busts.

I'm not sure if your projections are an attempt to reign in your own expectations or if you are purposely under-estimating the talent of some of these kids so your projections will appear to be more accurate when they achieve greater than you have suggested, but your projections are, in a word, depressing. It seems you're one of those guys who believes the only way to find true top line talent is to pull an Oiler and draft first overall for half a decade.

I believe there is talent through out the draft a you can pull a Detroit and find first liners in the 6th and 7th rounds if you do your homework and take some risks. I believe Jankowski has shown he has top line talent. I believe Gaudreau is an elite prospect, regardless of his size. I believe that if Harrison displays any scoring touch he will zoom up our depth chart and may be a player talked about as the major steal of this past draft for years to come. So far the performances at development camp were extremely encouraging and should have people excited about the future. Crapping all over our prospects and under-rating their performance is not providing balance, it's more like hedging a bet. We're not being Oiler fans who were blowing up marginal players who never performed above the level expected of them. I think Flames fans, and management, went into this camp with very guarded expectations and were blown away when a number of players exceeded those expectations by a huge margin. Big difference.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by New Era

The moral of your post is keep the razor blades away from you. There's being pessimistic, then there is what you just posted. Wow, reading that made me want to go take up watching Brazilian soccer. At least watching there the be-headings and quarterings take place on the pitch.

You could look at things completely differently, using the projections of players made by the experts prior to the recent draft, and come up with a vastly different take. For example, Monahan was almost unanimously identified as a future top line center, in the mold of Toews or Staal. Very few had him identified as a number two center, and those that did identified him as an elite second line center. That was considered his downside. I'm not saying I personally buy that, but that was the projections by the vast majority of the hockey community. So using that as a baseline and a comparison for certain players you could very easily make the follow observations using your schema.

Gaudreau---Monahan, Jankowski---NONE
Baertschi, Agostino ---Backlund, Granlund, Knight ---Poirier
Klimchuk---Reinhart, Horak, Arnold---Galiardi
Elson---Reinhart, Bouma---Harrison

Jankowski was every bit as good as Monahan in this camp and they are less than two months apart in age. If Monahan is that good, so is Jankowski. They both showed very well in a very competitive camp that you shouldn't be leaning toward their downside but instead leaning toward them achieving their upside. In fact, the vast majority of players exceeded expectations and should have you leaning towards them over-achieving. The only players that were possibly a little disappointing to me were Klimchuk and Poirier, but that can be expected when they are arriving at their first pro-camp. Wait and see what they do in the fall before writing them off as under-achievers or busts.

I'm not sure if your projections are an attempt to reign in your own expectations or if you are purposely under-estimating the talent of some of these kids so your projections will appear to be more accurate when they achieve greater than you have suggested, but your projections are, in a word, depressing. It seems you're one of those guys who believes the only way to find true top line talent is to pull an Oiler and draft first overall for half a decade.

I believe there is talent through out the draft a you can pull a Detroit and find first liners in the 6th and 7th rounds if you do your homework and take some risks. I believe Jankowski has shown he has top line talent. I believe Gaudreau is an elite prospect, regardless of his size. I believe that if Harrison displays any scoring touch he will zoom up our depth chart and may be a player talked about as the major steal of this past draft for years to come. So far the performances at development camp were extremely encouraging and should have people excited about the future. Crapping all over our prospects and under-rating their performance is not providing balance, it's more like hedging a bet. We're not being Oiler fans who were blowing up marginal players who never performed above the level expected of them. I think Flames fans, and management, went into this camp with very guarded expectations and were blown away when a number of players exceeded those expectations by a huge margin. Big difference.

Wow. His post wasn't pessimistic at all. This was a prospect camp. It was a few drills and two scrimmages. It doesn't change goalposts.

Experts project to ten players top be great all the time, but the chances if them reaching that potential isn't anywhere near 100%. Sounds like you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Jankowski was nowhere near as good as Monahan. Not even close. But this is prospect camp. The purpose is to expose these kids to what the pro club is all about and for a glimpse of what they bring. Sam Gagner, referred to above, had 118pts on 53 games as a 17 year old and was expected to be a first line player.

You claim we aren't Oiler fans who blow up marginal prospects who haven't shown anything, then talk about how Harrison will be one of the major steals of the draft after he plays 2 intra squad scrimmages with non pro players????