Flames Development Camp July 10th - 16th

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Play Bad For Ekblad.

Originally Posted by jg13

Fall apart for Reinhart

Stop.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I remember being in Edmonton right before the season started in 10-11. They had the 3 rookies they were highly touting in Eberle, Hall, MPS. The Flames have the ability to do similar things this year and next. For instance this season they can show Sven and Monahan as the new young rookies and next year they can likely do that with the first round pick and Johnny Hockey. I think they sell the youth movement pretty hard this season and will want Monahan there to be the centrepiece.

Again he has to earn the spot but he will be given every opportunity possible to earn it.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Vinny gets it. As much as it is a team trying to bring itself back to respectability the right way, it's also a business and an entertainment one at that, and that will factor in this year. We don't even have a legitimate 1st line on this team. It's basically in shambles without some young future stars to draw attention to. Not saying they will guarantee him a spot, but they'll give him every opportunity possible to take it for himself and for the guys upstairs.

1) The Flames are NOT Edmonton, and if anything, have a passionate desire to not appear to be making the same mistakes.

2) If they want to sell hope and youth (which I don't buy for a second), they have Baertschi, Brodie, Knight, Reinhart, and possibly Cundari, Breen or Wotherspoon for this season. Monahan slots into next season just as easily as this one.

3) With a waiting list for season's tickets, and a packed house for a prospect camp this week, I doubt very much that they are worried about having to sell the rebuild. Any fan that needs to see a shiny new face can hang their hat on Baertschi for now.

This is not Florida and they do not have to 'sell' hope.

They will (I hope) remain focused on developing the youth properly - which is going to be far more valuable in the long run.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh absolutely... but I don't think/hope they don't do that at the risk of hurting the prospect. Edmonton did that with Paajarvi and he wasn't physically ready yet and it hurt him. Yes the Flames will probably want to promote the youth but I truly don't think they will rush Monahan into it if they aren't ready.

I think you can do that this year, sans Monahan. Sven is still a guy you can promote big time, fans love him. If they have the plethora of young players that are potentially ready to play this year, you can do that. Then in 2014-2015 you have have Monahan, Gaudreau and whoever we maybe draft next year.

I think the Flames can do that but the fact Sven has already played and the youth movement is really the focus of the team I still think Monahan is going to be the poster child. I do agree that there is no way the Flames will rush him for the sake of it.

The Flames drafted the BPA who also happened to fill a position of immense need and also was much more NHL ready than some of his peers. Monahan is going to be 19 less than a month into the season, he has already played 3 years jr, and has NHL size (not to mention is responsible defensively). He has all the makings of a rookie who is going to stick. The fact Feaster has stated they wanted a guy who can play right away lead me to think the writing is on the wall. It is Monahan's spot to lose more than anything. If Monahan clearly looks like he needs another year in jr the Flames will certainly send him back there.

[$ven27]

Brainfarts for Reinhart.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Stop.

Eat Loam for Lindholm didn't work

[Phanuthier]

Every game matters?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

Man, as much as I'd love to see the Flames turn it around quickly, there is pretty much no way this isn't a 4-5 year rebuild process we are looking at.

2013-14 = Baertschi
2014-15 = Monahan
2015-16 = Gaudreau/Jankowski
2016-17 = Reinhart/McDavid
2017-18 = Compete?

no rebuild this way works (see edmonton, columbus, etc).

We need to look to the 2nd/3rd/4th rounders that are able to develop into good NHL players, aside from the high first rounders, to be the next Chicago.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Every game matters?

Making funny rhymes and jokes matters too!

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

no rebuild this way works (see edmonton, columbus, etc).

We need to the 2nd/3rd/4th rounders that are able to develop into good NHL players, aside from the high first rounders, to be the next Chicago.

Good thing we'll have Harrison, Poirier, Reinhart, Kanzig, Ramage, Agostino, Knight, Ferland, Klimchuk, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, etc. possibly joining them as well then.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Flames do not have to have Monahan in the lineup to bring people to the dome. There are many other young kids that will do that.

Not sure if anyone has compared this to the 'young guns' era, but there are distinct differences. That era was hard to buy into because there was no light at the end of the tunnel. The general feeling after seeing MacInnis, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Fleury, etc., all leave was that the Flames (and many other Canadian teams) were 'feeder organizations' that developed talent, and then lost it to the good teams in FA. There was little light at the end of the tunnel, coupled with the low Canadian dollar. You felt like you were watching a higher version of the AHL. That is how I saw it anyways.

This time around, there is light. There are decent prospects on their way. The dollar is high. The Flames are one of the 'big spenders' in the NHL. Sure, this season is going to be rough, but it isn't always about wins and losses. It is about watching the next core grow up, mature, and hopefully become successful. Being a witness to it all, so that when the Flames win the cup again, the Fans that stuck through and showed up to the games will be the ones with tears in their eyes remembering how tough that journey was.

I do believe that even without some marquee names, the Flames will sell out if the following conditions are met:

1) There is an air of a turn-around at some point
2) The players show effort on the ice, and are entertaining even in a loss
3) There is 'hope' coming down the pipe with marquee players
4) Flames buy-into the youth movement and breathe some new life into the fold - regardless if they are 'marquee' or not.

Fans started staying away in the last while in Calgary because they were irate with management in not only putting a 'winning team' on the ice, but having a team that just showed little passion. It became boring. It was an expensive bore. Fans got excited when Reinhart, Hanowski and some other prospects played more. This year, there will be a few more, and the whispers that next season will be even better. That will be enough (I think) to consistently fill the dome. I don't think you need to market around Monahan.

You will have Baertschi, Reinhart, Horak, Cundari, Breen and Knight either being called up semi-regularly or staying with the Flames altogether. You have some bigger and more physical players in the lineup. You have a full year of McGrattan smashing faces (that is pretty entertaining, whether you agree with fighting or not).

I think the Flames this year will be 'sort of' like that team that pounded the living daylights out of Anaheim in that famous game where everyone got ejected. I loved the Flames then, though they definitely won't be quite that tough up and down the lineup. I think they will be fun to watch, but will have a terrible season. As long as there is new life and some 'moxie' out there, they will be entertaining and the fans will enjoy the games, though a little less than losing.

Flames lost last year in spectacularly unemotional and boring circumstances. That is why lots of fans started tuning them out. This year will be the relative same in terms of on-ice success, but there will be more emotion. Just what I think.

So if Monahan has a greater chance of developing to his full potential playing with the Flames this season, then so be it. If not, then send him down. His readiness should be the ONLY factor in considering where he goes.

[red sky]

Finding a gem in the later rounds is huge to helping the rebuild. Time will tell with a few of our guys but if one or two were to pan out, it would go a long way to helping with the rebuild.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's possible but I wouldn't count on it that quick. Goaltending is a question mark (no franchise goaltender) and we are placing a lot of hope on players that have yet to play in the NHL or ones that have just started out.

Who are these franchise goaltenders you speak of and where do you get them? Here's the top goaltenders in the NHL last season, based on save percentage so we try and stay away from a team stat like GAA or wins, and where they were drafted.

Anderson (3rd, 73)
Bobrovsky (not drafted)
Rack (1st, 24)
Schneider (1st, 26)
Lundqvist (7th, 205)
Crawford (2nd, 52)
Niemi (not drafted)
Reiner (4th, 99)
LaBarbera (3rd, 66)
Howard (2nd, 64)

Which of those guys was the great franchise goaltender from his class? Rask was drafted as the 2nd goaltender in his class. Schneider was the 4th goaltender in his class. The best goaltender of the bunch, Lundqvist, was the 22nd goaltender selected in his class! With goaltenders you just never know. I would like to know why one of our guys still can't step up and grab that role as a good starter to even a franchise goaltender? Or do you forget that Anderson was a Flames pick that Craig Button stupidly elected not to sign and give some development time to?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Absolutely, to be honest I think it's silly to predict either way.

re: Hartley, hoping he has a new mandate like Feaster seems to have. He was harder on the younger guys (Sven especially) because he seemed to be in the win now mode and defaulted to vets. Hopefully we see less of that. As Conroy said during the camp last week, the tie will go to the rookie player in camp over the veteran for a roster spot.

We'll see how it plays out.

I didn't make any predictions. Just cautioned that rebuilding isn't just about getting a solid prospect base. A lot of other things have to go right as well and most rebuilding teams that break through usually have either a key player addition or new coaching hire that spurs getting over the hump.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who are these franchise goaltenders you speak of and where do you get them? Here's the top goaltenders in the NHL last season, based on save percentage so we try and stay away from a team stat like GAA or wins, and where they were drafted.

Anderson (3rd, 73)
Bobrovsky (not drafted)
Rack (1st, 24)
Schneider (1st, 26)
Lundqvist (7th, 205)
Crawford (2nd, 52)
Niemi (not drafted)
Reiner (4th, 99)
LaBarbera (3rd, 66)
Howard (2nd, 64)

Which of those guys was the great franchise goaltender from his class? Rask was drafted as the 2nd goaltender in his class. Schneider was the 4th goaltender in his class. The best goaltender of the bunch, Lundqvist, was the 22nd goaltender selected in his class! With goaltenders you just never know. I would like to know why one of our guys still can't step up and grab that role as a good starter to even a franchise goaltender? Or do you forget that Anderson was a Flames pick that Craig Button stupidly elected not to sign and give some development time to?

Whats your point? Are any of those goaltenders on the Flames roster? Explain to me how that is relevant to the goaltenders in the Flames system? There are a couple of good looking prospects but so was Irving. You think Ramo is going to jump back into the NHL and play to the level of the goaltenders you listed? Anything is possible but if it was that easy to find these guys teams like the Flyers wouldn't be perennially searching for them and lets not forget that outside of Kipper there were very lean years for this organization at the position post Vernon.

[djsFlames]

I think the 82 game season will start to wear on fans (outside of hardcores), and that is the main concern of ownership. That is if the 48 game season was any indication. The dome was becoming a library (it was pathetic) and ratings were in the crapper for the most part. If Baertschi is that sole "highlight" piece to the future, then if he goes out with an injury while we're in the midst of a struggle or a lengthy losing streak (which may very well be possible) then there may be concern that interest could turn to apathy very quickly. And that's a scary thing to guys upstairs and in the media. I'm as excited as any here for Horak, Knight, Bouma, Reinhart as our progressing supporting cast. But I can't say the same for those outside the most faithful followers of the team. I have many friends that enjoy the Flames and spend money on tix/merch, but they strictly follow the NHL team/roster, and pay little to no attention to the future that is developing in other leagues or in Abby. And I can tell you there isn't much interest other than Sven since Jarome and Bo left and now Kipper is leaving. Those centerpieces are most certainly important to have in place for that large, more casual fanbase, whether those here see it or not.

[Day Tripper]

Originally Posted by nik-

Eat Loam for Lindholm didn't work

The Losing Plan for Monahan worked out just as well.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Whats your point? Are any of those goaltenders on the Flames roster? Explain to me how that is relevant to the goaltenders in the Flames system? There are a couple of good looking prospects but so was Irving. You think Ramo is going to jump back into the NHL and play to the level of the goaltenders you listed? Anything is possible but if it was that easy to find these guys teams like the Flyers wouldn't be perennially searching for them and lets not forget that outside of Kipper there were very lean years for this organization at the position post Vernon.

Nice move of the goal posts. Could Ramo or Berra be the answer? Possibly. Do you think anyone knew Boborovsky was going to become a star goaltender like that? How about Lundqvist? You just never know until you see these guys play. I suspect that Ramo will be a very different player than he was in Tampa. He could turn out to be pretty good if the Flames play some defense in front of him. I think that is the point that matters the most, and not what round the goaltender was drafted in, or whether you want to call him a franchise goaltender or not. If the team plays well in front of the goaltender you can make anyone look good. Even a shlub like Crawford!

The post-Vernon comment made me lol. Mentioned Anderson was a Flames pick. I guess you missed that. I guess you also missed this guy named Kirpusoff that just played for us for the past eight years. Like all teams the Flames had their share of missed opportunities between the pipes and opportunities to pick up guys that could have been good. The thing with goaltenders is they are hit-and-miss regardless of when you draft them and the fit with the team appears to be as important a factor as anything.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by red sky

Finding a gem in the later rounds is huge to helping the rebuild. Time will tell with a few of our guys but if one or two were to pan out, it would go a long way to helping with the rebuild.

*cough* gaudreau, brodie *cough*

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think the 82 game season will start to wear on fans (outside of hardcores), and that is the main concern of ownership. That is if the 48 game season was any indication. The dome was becoming a library (it was pathetic) and ratings were in the crapper for the most part. If Baertschi is that sole "highlight" piece to the future, then if he goes out with an injury while we're in the midst of a struggle or a lengthy losing streak (which may very well be possible) then there may be concern that interest could turn to apathy very quickly.

I agree. Fans have to realize that we are now in Oilers fan territory in that the draft is our biggest highlight of the year. Next season is going to be extremely difficult especially as the season gets deep and the team is in the basement and losing is the norm. I hope that fans can stomach this as it will likely be pretty ugly in the immediate future. You just have to grin and bear it and realize that better days are ahead.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree. Fans have to realize that we are now in Oilers fan territory in that the draft is our biggest highlight of the year. Next season is going to be extremely difficult especially as the season gets deep and the team is in the basement and losing is the norm. I hope that fans can stomach this as it will likely be pretty ugly in the immediate future. You just have to grin and bear it and realize that better days are ahead.

I love the Flames, but I'm not sure I can stomach watching