07-11-2013, 06:52 PM
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#442
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo22
luckily we don't have to choose one 
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who said we wouldn't like a rebuild
this has been the best off season in recent memory! tired of knowing the team was going no where, but still getting band-aid fixes (Brad Richards, Ryan Smyth, Wideman)...... this offseason has been A+ so far
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-Taylor Hall
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07-11-2013, 06:53 PM
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#443
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluck
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Meh, those are just a bunch of fans posting like the ones here.
Truthfully I don't want anyone to be singing the praises of the Flames drafting until we start turning these kids into NHL players. It's why I don't get bent out of shape when TSN gives us crap. We'll get respect when we earn it.
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07-11-2013, 06:54 PM
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#444
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver :(
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Meh, those are just a bunch of fans posting like the ones here.
Truthfully I don't want anyone to be singing the praises of the Flames drafting until we start turning these kids into NHL players. It's why I don't get bent out of shape when TSN gives us crap. We'll get respect when we earn it.
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True but it's nice to see the opinion of other posters with a little less bias then the fans of the team you're cheering for.
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07-11-2013, 06:55 PM
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#445
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cambodia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass_nerder
Admittedly, I've seen only limited amounts from both Monahan, and jankowski, but it feels like Monahan is more of a sure thing, but jankowski had the higher potential ceiling.
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That's my impression too. I haven't seen Monahan as much as I've seen Jankowski, but I think Jankowski has the higher ceiling but the lower floor.
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07-11-2013, 07:18 PM
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#446
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Franchise Player
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Still hard to get used to having two great centre prospects.
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07-11-2013, 07:36 PM
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#447
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great
They are close now. Monahan has more potential. It is surprisingly close though. Janko has 60-75 point potential, Monahan more in the 65-80 range. Monahan will be quicker to realize his potential.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great
Mono 10 times out of 10. Offensively they are comparable, but C's are more important.
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We're one day into camp and haven't even seen these kids play a scrimmage against each other, so isn't it a little early to be making these calls and projections?
Thank god they are all our prospects and we don't have to worry about making choices between them!
A few questions on the comparison between Monahan and Jankowski. What exactly is it that separates the two right now? Are you considering the learning curve Jankowski has faced along with the physical maturity he's faced this past year? Don't forget these two kids are only one month apart in age and Jankowski has not had the same development opportunities that Monahan has had. Some of the things that may appear as advantages can be quickly learned while playing systems in college. How do they compare in basic hockey skills and instincts? Agility? Quickness? Speed? Stick skills? How do they ise their bodies?
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07-11-2013, 07:58 PM
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#448
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
We're one day into camp and haven't even seen these kids play a scrimmage against each other, so isn't it a little early to be making these calls and projections?
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Just basing it off raw skills witnessed in person, seeing their video highlights and evaluating them to comparable players that played before. The most comparable player for Monahan that I've seen is Marleau in terms of their entire package.
Jankowski has a similar package of physical assets to Monahan, but plays more like Tanguay.
Stat wise, I'd see Monahan being a 30g-40a guy, with Janko being more a 20-25g 40-45A guy.
Of course more info (scrimmages etc) will help to refine my opinion but my initial evaluations are in the ballpark. It doesn't take much info to get a good albeit general idea of what a player is like.
Quote:
A few questions on the comparison between Monahan and Jankowski. What exactly is it that separates the two right now? Are you considering the learning curve Jankowski has faced along with the physical maturity he's faced this past year? Don't forget these two kids are only one month apart in age and Jankowski has not had the same development opportunities that Monahan has had. Some of the things that may appear as advantages can be quickly learned while playing systems in college. How do they compare in basic hockey skills and instincts? Agility? Quickness? Speed? Stick skills? How do they ise their bodies?
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They both have a big frame and use it effectively. Janko is slightly more passive, but that has to do with adjusting to his body. They both have a good and accurate shot, though Mono's is slightly harder. They are both heady players that think the game well, both have roughly the same speed and agility as well as stick skills. In each case, Mono is slightly more polished, but it is close enough where they are in the same conversation. Overall Mono is better at everything, but not by enough to say for sure that he will be the better player in 5 years.
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07-11-2013, 08:00 PM
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#449
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Sven or Monahan?
Probably Monahan... Sven will put up more points and goals but Monahan is the jack-of-all-trades in the middle position. I'm a big big fan of his. But Sven is going to be a big goal scorer in the NHL. It's a good debate to have.
I hope Sven develops his two-way game.. on draft day he was called Mini-Hossa... and you can tell he has a passion to win not just a passion to score goals.
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honest question even though it may seem like a far fetched comparison;
who would you rather have, kane or toews?
not saying anybody is going to be as good as either of those two, but the answer will tell you what kind of players you value on your roster and will likely answer the sven v. monahan question.
side note sven isn't much of a prospect anymore, i sort of see him like backlund, as a guy with something to prove next season, and monahan feels like a sure thing (janko is starting to as well  ) but our best prospect is johnny hockey, so much of the franchises future rests on his ability to translate to the nhl game. the kid is bananner skilled.
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07-11-2013, 08:07 PM
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#450
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Franchise Player
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I think the comparison between Jankowski and Monahan will be easier to gauge during scrimmages. Either way, I think CP can take a collective sigh of relief that good things are coming down the middle. Nothing is guaranteed yet of course, but everything points to these two prospects playing for the Flames in the future.
Also, I was just thinking..
Gaudreau will be back finishing his degree (2 more years), Jankowski may be 1-3 years away depending on how long he decides to stick in Providence. Klimchuk and Poirier sound like they will return for another season at least. Seems like the guys that will be 'difference makers' earlier than later are all going to be developing away patiently, which is great.
Leads me to think that this season, Flames are definitely going to be at the bottom of the rankings. Probably next season as well - which is really fine - Patience is Virtue. Just imagine Flames draft Reinhart/Ekblad or whomever else will be a top-end pick (in the top 5 most likely) and then perhaps a shot at McDavid (again, if the Flames are preaching patience and these difference makers are finishing off their degrees and developing), the following season could very well be really interesting and somewhat 'stacked' with a dearth of very, very good prospects.
This is the big difference between Edmonton's and Calgary's rebuilds. Edmonton was never able to draft good talent outside the top pick (Eberle excluded), and it seems Calgary has had a bit of a 'head-start' on Edmonton, but seem to be preaching patience. Our high picks will be surrounded by more developed young kids, 'semi-veterans' (i.e. Backlund, Baertschi), and some size in the lineup (and there are prospects that have size themselves!).
Future is really looking good. I really doubt that the Flames will be in the McDavid sweepstakes - but I would try and make an attractive package for NJ's 2015 first, just in case
Really relieved (and excited!) to hear that Ferland is looking more fit and showing some emotion out there. Still think a player like him in the lineup has huge value - rare combination of good scoring and lots of toughness (Lucic comparable? Chris Simon? Would be ecstatic either way).
I will most likely be at the scrimmage on Saturday (hopefully). Can't wait to see how these guys look like against one another, and how Kanzig does out there against the smaller and quicker guys like Gaudreau and Baertschi. Will really be interesting to see how the 'top 4' (Gaudreau, Baertstchi, Jankowski and Monahan) all look like against one another, and how Poirier and Klimchuk fit in as well.
Exciting times ahead!
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07-11-2013, 08:15 PM
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#451
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The toilet of Alberta : Edmonton
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Baertschi - Monahan -
Gaudreau - Jankowski -
Agostino/Hanowski - Knight/Reinhart -
Looks nice, but we need some serious RW development or positional switches.
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07-11-2013, 08:19 PM
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#452
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Baertschi - Monahan -
Gaudreau - Jankowski -
Agostino/Hanowski - Knight/Reinhart -
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Poirier is RW and Hanowski can play there as well. Might also throw Klimchuk in there. In terms of the 2014 draft, Nylander can play RW and IIRC Sam Reinhart played RW with Max in his rookie year ... just saying
Baertschi - Monahan -
Gaudreau - Jankowski - Poirier
Klimchuk - Knight/Reinhart - Agostino/Hanowski
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07-11-2013, 08:21 PM
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#453
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Baertschi - Monahan -
Gaudreau - Jankowski -
Agostino/Hanowski - Knight/Reinhart -
Looks nice, but we need some serious RW development or positional switches.
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If even 2 of those guys end up as good top 6 forwards, and 4 of them end up as top 9 forwards, I will be extremely happy.
Still wouldn't leave Backlund out of the mix, I think he gets forgotten sometimes (or thought of as a bust by some) but he's still got top notch hockey sense, and top notch skill, and top notch compete level. He just gets injured a bit. I wouldn't leave him out of the group of centers.
C : Backlund, Monohan, Jankowski, Knight, Max Reinhart
LW : Baertschi, Gaudreau... Horak, Nemisz
RW : Porier (?), Klimchuk (?)
D : Brodie, Wotherspoon, Sieloff
pretty happy so far (bolded are guys I think will be in the NHL next year and play a top 9 fwd / top 4 D role)
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"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
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07-11-2013, 08:23 PM
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#454
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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oh and throw Butler in there if some of you want to
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"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
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07-11-2013, 08:24 PM
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#455
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jul 2013
Exp:  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Baertschi - Monahan -
Gaudreau - Jankowski -
Agostino/Hanowski - Knight/Reinhart -
Looks nice, but we need some serious RW development or positional switches.
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Poirier plays RW although he shoots left. He could definitely be a viable option on one of the top 2 lines in the future. Also I believe Hanowski can play RW so slot him on the third line and it seems we have pretty decent balance. I definitely agree though, hopefully we can track down a good RW in the future to play in the top six with our young stars.
I'm definitely excited to see how Jankowski vs Monahan plays out in the scrimmage. Also would like to see how Gaudreau's offense holds up against our top D prospects and in relation to Sven, who has already produced at the NHL level.
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07-11-2013, 08:33 PM
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#456
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handgroen
honest question even though it may seem like a far fetched comparison;
who would you rather have, kane or toews?
not saying anybody is going to be as good as either of those two, but the answer will tell you what kind of players you value on your roster and will likely answer the sven v. monahan question..
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Toews, without question.
Quote:
side note sven isn't much of a prospect anymore, i sort of see him like backlund, as a guy with something to prove next season, and monahan feels like a sure thing (janko is starting to as well ) but our best prospect is johnny hockey, so much of the franchises future rests on his ability to translate to the nhl game. the kid is bananner skilled
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Sven Baertschi is without a doubt still a prospect. He's played exactly 25 NHL games, five of those because of an emergency recall basis. He's 20 years old.
That is entirely different then Backlund who had almost 150 NHL games experience, three years older, with lots of question marks if he could take the next step.
Although, as an aside, it's almost hilarious how quickly some people lose patience with a young player. Kinda crazy how quickly some wanted to see Backlund ran out of town at the age of 23.
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07-11-2013, 08:39 PM
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#457
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Strathmore
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Came down from Red Deer to watch the two sessions today, just my 2 cents:
Group A:
The best:
Berra-looked excellent, in fact, he is above what the skaters can offer him in terms of quality of shots. A few times where he did let out some bad rebounds, he made spectacular 2nd and 3rd saves. He will push Ramo and McDonald for a spot with the big team, imo.
Gaudreau-the kid can dangle. He had a couple of real nice plays where he turned defensemen inside out.
Knight-he was up close for the first set of drills and works hard (skates back as what was being asked of him), has an excellent shot and got himself into good positions in front of the net.
Padakin-on a tryout and the Hitmen forward didn’t disappoint. Sat beside a couple of guys who didn’t pick up a roster sheet and they asked me 4 or 5 times who he was. Worked hard, really did well for himself today.
Gillies-I think Gillies might be the best true prospect the Flames have. Always in position, very few rebounds.
A note on Monahan, I thought he was just okay. He had a couple of excellent passes and good shots but I was expecting more and I think as the week goes on, he will show all his skills.
The bad:
Ferland-didn’t impress me at all. He has a shot and that’s about it.
Howse-same as Ferland.
Martin-poor James Martin, got turned inside out by Gaudreau. It was the only time I noticed him.
Group B:
The Good:
Agostino-he was the best player in this group by a far margin. Very tenacious. He must be a real pain in the ass to play against. Wins a lot of puck battles.
Jooris-everytime he got into a play I was double checking to see who he was. I think he did himself well today, worked really hard at all the drills, very noticeable.
Wasn’t overly pleased with Sven or Poirier, expected a lot more out of both of them. Neither Brossoit or Ortio were really good, just okay. If Ortio wants to push for an NHL job, he better start showing something the rest of this camp.
On Jankowski, he has some raw natural talent but he really needs to fill out and bulk up, he was easily knocked off the puck on several puck drills.
Overall, Group A was the better of the two groups imo but group b had a lot of physical play during the puck drills. Had quick chats with both Jay, Weisbrod and Connie. I really like how accessible the whole management team and coaching staff are during these sessions. Overheard a conversation with Bob and Jacques, Bob wasn’t pleased with a couple of kids from group b, didn’t catch any names.
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07-11-2013, 08:44 PM
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#459
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Sven Baertschi is without a doubt still a prospect. He's played exactly 25 NHL games, five of those because of an emergency recall basis. He's 20 years old.
That is entirely different then Backlund who had almost 150 NHL games experience, three years older, with lots of question marks if he could take the next step.
Although, as an aside, it's almost hilarious how quickly some people lose patience with a young player. Kinda crazy how quickly some wanted to see Backlund ran out of town at the age of 23.
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very. He's the same age as a few guys still at this camp!
__________________
"With a coach and a player, sometimes there's just so much respect there that it's boils over"
-Taylor Hall
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07-11-2013, 08:44 PM
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#460
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
I will most likely be at the scrimmage on Saturday (hopefully). Can't wait to see how these guys look like against one another, and how Kanzig does out there against the smaller and quicker guys like Gaudreau and Baertschi. Will really be interesting to see how the 'top 4' (Gaudreau, Baertstchi, Jankowski and Monahan) all look like against one another, and how Poirier and Klimchuk fit in as well.
Exciting times ahead!
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When I think of the scrimmage and the rest, this comes to mind
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