Feaster's post draft media scrum

[UKflames]

Well you can tell it was a good interview and that he didn't day anything inflamatory because the thread is only two pages long.

Really pleased to hear that he is resisting the offer of players that are going to be UFA's in a couple of years and plans to stay the course. Sounds to me like ownership have decided that the world isn't going to explode if they rebuild and that the fans actually get it and want it.

Edit: make that 3 pages now lol

[djsFlames]

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

I'm not one to judge as to whether they picked "right" or not, cause it's impossible to tell right now, but I feel like there's some tunnel vision going on within our management group. And with their track record (despite a slightly improved 2011 draft) I just don't think they should be "not caring" about what the mainstream/outside sources feel about where players should be ranked, especially when it greatly differs from their own rankings. Trying to be clever should only be tried consecutively like this if you have proven that your scouting staff can pick out gems that have gone under the radar with your past picks. And other than what we found in TJ Brodie, we are no Detroit.

I like the picks though, all the 1st rounders look talented, and Monahan was my favorite going in. I just hope we don't regret these choices later, seeing as this draft could either make or break us down the road.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds.

My guess, based on reports and rumours that have been trickling in:

Player who will sign with the Flames >> player at risk to re-enter the draft

If it's true that Shinkaruk was not at all interested in playing for the Flames, they probably crossed him off their list.

(There may also be a bit of the Angelo Esposito factor at work. Shinkaruk scored less at 17 than he did at 16, which is seldom a good sign. At least Poirier's trending in the right direction.)

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

I'm not one to judge as to whether they picked "right" or not, cause it's impossible to tell right now, but I feel like there's some tunnel vision going on within our management group. And with their track record (despite a slightly improved 2011 draft) I just don't think they should be "not caring" about what the mainstream/outside sources feel about where players should be ranked, especially when it greatly differs from their own rankings. Trying to be clever should only be tried consecutively like this if you have proven that your scouting staff can pick out gems that have gone under the radar with your past picks. And other than what we found in TJ Brodie, we are no Detroit.

I like the picks though, all the 1st rounders look talented, and Monahan was my favorite going in. I just hope we don't regret these choices later, seeing as this draft could either make or break us down the road.

Actually, in one of Button's interviews, there are probably two tidbits of information for you to feel a bit better about.

With regard to the Russian defencemen they picked, it really came from them doing their due-diligence on Nichushkin and trying to get more information. Rushan's name kept coming up, and they dug deeper. Though they knew about him beforehand, sounds like they decided to investigate him a bit more thoroughly.

Also, the whole part about perhaps just seeing a small sample size - Button also touched on this. The example was the Kanzig pick. They started seeing him in the development camp in Abby last year, and a number of their scouts went to see him, and kept tabs on him all year. Seems to me that they prefer to view a prospect continuously over the year, and don't put too much stock in a small sample size. Jankowski they were watching closely for at least half the season - as soon as he got on their radar, and they will also switch scouts and make sure that they get different eyes on him as well.

The only exception in this draft was the high school powerforward that was taken by the Flames. Seems only one scout saw him (and saw him a lot, apparently) and was very passionate about him.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Also, the whole part about perhaps just seeing a small sample size - Button also touched on this. The example was the Kanzig pick. They started seeing him in the development camp in Abby last year, and a number of their scouts went to see him, and kept tabs on him all year. Seems to me that they prefer to view a prospect continuously over the year, and don't put too much stock in a small sample size. Jankowski they were watching closely for at least half the season - as soon as he got on their radar, and they will also switch scouts and make sure that they get different eyes on him as well.

That was also mentioned as a factor in the Poirier pick. Because they knew there was a good chance that Monahan was going to be one of the players likely available for their pick, they were heavily scouting the 67s this year. Gatineau is just across the river from Ottawa, so the scouts would often go check out an Olympiques game as well when they were in the area (a good chance for scouts who don't normally watch the Q to get some exposure). As a result, Poirier was scouted almost as much as Monahan was.

That also played a factor in the Gilmour pick. They had a lot of people following Providence College this year because of Janko and Gillies. Gilmour kept catching their eye as well, so they decided to take a shot with their final pick.

The Flames did well with that strategy when Conroy went to Chilliwack to take a look at Howse and took notice of Horak.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

He tried though. Offering for Schneider.

This is 3 close calls now. Richards, O'Reilly and Schneider. Is he out yet?

I overreacted to the 22nd pick. Would have liked him to traded down but Montreal prob would have snapped him up.

Lets be fair, it sounds like he asked Vancouver what the price was and when he heard the answer, that was as far as it went.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Lets be fair, it sounds like he asked Vancouver what the price was and when he heard the answer, that was as far as it went.

That doesn't sound like a final four proposition.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

That doesn't sound like a final four proposition.

It is if the other 25 teams didn't even get that far.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by getbak

It is if the other 25 teams didn't even get that far.

All the stories I've read about the deal suggest that there were only five teams in the mix to begin with. Making the final four in a five-team field is not that big a deal.

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

I'm not one to judge as to whether they picked "right" or not, cause it's impossible to tell right now, but I feel like there's some tunnel vision going on within our management group. And with their track record (despite a slightly improved 2011 draft) I just don't think they should be "not caring" about what the mainstream/outside sources feel about where players should be ranked, especially when it greatly differs from their own rankings. Trying to be clever should only be tried consecutively like this if you have proven that your scouting staff can pick out gems that have gone under the radar with your past picks. And other than what we found in TJ Brodie, we are no Detroit.

I like the picks though, all the 1st rounders look talented, and Monahan was my favorite going in. I just hope we don't regret these choices later, seeing as this draft could either make or break us down the road.

Though this view has a degree of rationality behind it--why wouldn't you get as many opinions as possible for the most informed decision--there is a couple of drawbacks.

First, it is difficult to judge whether the Flames completely ignore the opinions of independent scouting services, as discussion regarding players is kept behind closed doors.

Second, I would rather the Flames be committed to their process, and the abilities their staff, then giving weight to the opinions of an unknown, unfamiliar person. I have no clue as to who writes the reports for central scouting, or the Hockey News, or any other such reports, and I do not know what makes them qualified to evaluate a pool of prospects. That is not say the people in central scouting are terrible at what they do; rather, the Flames have hired people to do a job. Let them do their job, and reward them by drafting players your scouts believe in.

Of course, our scouting and player development might be crap. But then we have a much bigger problem than who we draft 22nd overall.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys.

Does any team focus on what the media or NHL rank players at? I highly doubt it.

Does ISS, the media or NHL have lists specific to teams without a #1C, low prospect depth, in rebuild mode, in need of building a bigger lineup, in a mid market with limited attractiveness to players, in a high travel division?

Teams should focus on what they feel their needs are not what the consensus pick is. I really believe teams have at least as much access to their short list of top round players as ISS or whoever does. Where teams differ, as we've historically seen with Detroit, is they have certain areas of scouting expertise which helps them find the late round diamonds.

We are also not privy to the testing and interviewing the teams do and therefore really can't make definitive statements on who should have been picked.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

I'm not one to judge as to whether they picked "right" or not, cause it's impossible to tell right now, but I feel like there's some tunnel vision going on within our management group. And with their track record (despite a slightly improved 2011 draft) I just don't think they should be "not caring" about what the mainstream/outside sources feel about where players should be ranked, especially when it greatly differs from their own rankings. Trying to be clever should only be tried consecutively like this if you have proven that your scouting staff can pick out gems that have gone under the radar with your past picks. And other than what we found in TJ Brodie, we are no Detroit.

I like the picks though, all the 1st rounders look talented, and Monahan was my favorite going in. I just hope we don't regret these choices later, seeing as this draft could either make or break us down the road.

I get what you are saying. My thoughts are if you believe in your vision and scouting you don't waiver for anything. The criteria has changed for the last 2 drafts and it is becoming a little more obvious that Weisbrods approach is a bit different from most teams in the NHL. We are not going to know for a couple more years whether he is a genius or a crackpot. If a genius we are laughing, if a crackpot you can add a couple more years to the rebuild.

Maybe its the homer glasses but i believe in it.

[Nittmo]

Feaster is sticking to his plan. Just think back to last year, pre-season when many were crying for the rebuild to begin then..or earlier if quantum-physics would allow it. I wouldn't have imagined the, that we could have 3 1st rounders in a fairly deep draft.
Results will not be immediate, but I believe Feaster can do a better job than the Oilers old-boys front office has, and perhaps a young, cantankerous squad like the early 80's can punch their way into the playoffs in a couple years, right around the time that the Oilers are trying to pay those three #1's.
Even if the club stinks this year, step back and let Feaster do his job. He has my benefit-of-doubt

[PlayfulGenius]

As much as I love seeing the Oilers struggle, it would be awesome if both teams return to glory together...especially with the league going back to divisional playoffs!!

[Itse]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

I'm not one to judge as to whether they picked "right" or not, cause it's impossible to tell right now, but I feel like there's some tunnel vision going on within our management group. And with their track record (despite a slightly improved 2011 draft) I just don't think they should be "not caring" about what the mainstream/outside sources feel about where players should be ranked, especially when it greatly differs from their own rankings. Trying to be clever should only be tried consecutively like this if you have proven that your scouting staff can pick out gems that have gone under the radar with your past picks. And other than what we found in TJ Brodie, we are no Detroit.

I like the picks though, all the 1st rounders look talented, and Monahan was my favorite going in. I just hope we don't regret these choices later, seeing as this draft could either make or break us down the road.

This video the Flames put on the video site explaining their scouting process should put those worries pretty much to rest.

They specifically mention talking to all the coaches in all the leagues for example, talking to players team mates, talking to their guidance councilors, principals at their schools... Just everybody who they might have something. I'm sure that includes other scouts too, as much as they are willing to share.

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=11&id=260474&cmpid=embed-share-video


I mean sure, this is propably just for the top guys, but you have to consider that they have several guys who basicly have nothing else to do for a whole year every year than to gather information on players by every possible mean they can think of. I'm sure they do read mainstream scouting reports, but really, how long is that going to take out of a year? A week or three? A drop in the ocean basicly, when you listen to what the scouts actually do.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Here's my slightly more critical opinion..

It just seems that when the Flames make their list, they focus all their intel from strictly internal personnel, and turn a cold shoulder to the NHL scout/mainstream reports from people who may have watched some of these kids for longer periods of time than the Flames' guys. This is what concerns me. I think you need to factor in some outside opinions as well. Talk to those other scouts. Gather as much info. That may be part of their process, but judging by how Feaster came across, it sounds like everything's judged internally. And if you're sticking to only a couple opinions of those who caught a mere handful of games (when they talk about players picked, it doesn't sound like they're taking from a large sample size of games, ex-Jankowski) perhaps they're not gauging the player properly. And sure, I like Poirier, but I'd like to know what places Poirier higher than Shinkaruk in their minds. If three of four scouting reports have him ranked at 40-70 (one 29th), then obviously those opinions were completely discarded here. Do they truly, honestly believe Poirier will be a more impact NHLer in the future? If they can't say so confidently, then maybe that was not the pick to be made at 22. But if so, then I sure hope they're right.

The thing with this though is that scouts from different teams rarely talk to each other about players because they don't want to tip off another organization. Believe me, it hardly, if ever happens.

The most important thing that every team does, which is almost more important that first-hand scouting, is getting the coach's opinion and read on a player. The coaches are an incredibly reliable resource in most cases.

Between first-hand scouting, cross scouting, interviewing the respective coaches, and interviewing the player at the combine/team's combine, I think teams have a good enough sense about the kind of player and personality they'll be getting.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Main points I got from it:

• acknowledged WHL heavy prospects again, but pointed out drafted from OHL, QMJHL, Russian junior, and college
• there were a lot of deals that could have been done... 1st round picks for players that are 1 or 2 years away from UFA... not the way to do a rebuild
• heard a lot of chatter about teams trying to jump in front of Flames or what players other teams were interested in... were pretty pleased they got Monohan at 6
• had a lot inqueries about 1st round picks... but are 1 or 2 years away from Free Agency, management group felt that was not the way to do a rebuild
• plans to sign Monahan right away and compete for a spot on the team
• will take a look at signing Poirier and Klimichuk ... rather sign them sooner than later
• thought the mini combine they held was helpful.. allowed Gelinas, Pringle, and Conroy to meet with prospects
• invited 4 players to the mini combine... drafted 3 of them (Petan is reportedly the 4th)
• still thinks there will be trade activity once some of the bought out players get signed
• already have drawn up a UFA list
• doesn't feel UFAs will fill all the holes on the team, but still need to be able to compete, maybe won't be active but will be strategic
• won't comment on Lecavalier
• started process to qualify RFA will finalize on July 2nd... some decisions on RFAs depeneded on what happened this weekend
• on Shinkaruk: doesn't matter that he was from Calgary they were going to stick to their list

This to me seems like they narrowed in on their targeted players early, invited them to a mini combine and then stuck with them as their picks. Seems like a piss poor strategy for a draft.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

As much as I love seeing the Oilers struggle, it would be awesome if both teams return to glory together...especially with the league going back to divisional playoffs!!

Nope. Oilers should always suck.

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

This to me seems like they narrowed in on their targeted players early, invited them to a mini combine and then stuck with them as their picks. Seems like a piss poor strategy for a draft.

They discussed heavily who they wanted to draft beforehand, met with them and then were fortunate enough to draft the guys they actually wanted to draft. How is that piss poor?

If they wanted to draft someone like Shinkaruk they would have invited him and picked him if he was available.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

This to me seems like they narrowed in on their targeted players early, invited them to a mini combine and then stuck with them as their picks. Seems like a piss poor strategy for a draft.

Absolutely. Of course. Negative simply for the sake of being negative...

Or, two weeks pre-draft they had a very good idea who they wanted, and the combine and their own mini-combine helped solidify their thoughts and position.