[Trade] Flames acquire Shane O'Brien and David Jones for Tanguay and Sarich

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Hey I wasn't planning on going there, I had simply wanted to make fun of Shane O'Brien. Your compatriot wanted the play-offs to be a focal point, so I let it!

Shane O'Brien sucks and I hate him. You are welcome to make fun of him any time on this forum IMO. I hope he sits in the press box all 82 games, planning his epic Vegas party. At least Hartley will make him do mountain climbers after he shows up late to practice.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

And at this point in his career, the only asset Tanguay has is his pass. He is awful to below average in every other aspect (and yes that includes his shot, if you only use it once every 3 games you can't rate it as an above average shot). So again, why is this a bad trade? It's a total meh trade that seriously won't make a real difference to our team, other than get some old guys out of here. And if Jones shows that his last season was a blip, well, all the better for us.

Tanguay has one of the most accurate shots in the league, he is a fine skater, and he has good hockey IQ.

The only thing Jones beats Tanguay at is shooting, and really, if Tanguay shot more, I'm not sure if he wouldn't beat him in every category.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And how much did Glencross make when we first acquired him? Hell, how much does he make now?

Jones goal scoring record the last three years is identical to Glencross from 2010 to 2012, the years prior to his new contract.

We all say Glencross is underpaid at $2.5, so if Jones has similar stats the last three years he is at most $1 million overpaid.

We just have to hope Jones takes a similar step up in play at 28 like Glencross did.

Edit: Doesn't actually even need to step up, just needs to return to form from the two seasons prior to this one.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

This looks like a deal designed to ensure that the Flames get a high draft pick this season.

Flames got the two worst players in the deal, for the same cap hit, and the players they got likely don't have any upside left.

Just a bad trade for the Flames IMO.

The Flames need to continue to change the lockerroom. At some point over the last 3-4 seasons players in this organization got complacent. We've all seen it in work places before. Everyone is to blame, the captain, the assistants, the various players we've had, the coaches etc etc etc. They need to continue to totally revamp the locker room culture that has set in.

Tanguay is turning 34 soon and Sarich will be 35 by the time the season roles around, they have to bring in guys who are either going on the upswing or not on the downswing. That is a major part of that trade.

Changing the culture is the reason why I am still hoping Glencross and Giordano are moved. The organization needs a cleansing. Once complacency sets in it's hard as crap to get out.. .and trades like this are part of it. The country club Flames locker room is hopefully no more.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by DropIt

2 years before, fact checker

And I realise that he once scored 45 points, but he has definitely regressed with each passing season all the way down to where he is now. For the record I dont think he will cap out at 10 points, but I also dont expect him to get back to his ~40 point pace even though he is very much paid as such.

Touche on the facts.

I understand Jones is no prize, but he's certainly better than last years numbers indicate IMO. Likely somewhere in the middle.. 15G-30P player. Solid 3rd liner that can fill in on the 2nd line when needed.

Jones will be overpaid for sure, but Tanguay would've been as well.

[moon]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

I don't understand why people insist on staying a Flames fan when they hate every single thing this team does. Hurts my brain...

I don't understand why people insist on making stuff up rather than actually looking at what posters say.

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Hindsight is 20/20. Did we expect Richards to become a buyout candidate at the time?

Buyout candidate maybe not, but horrible fit for the Flames and an awful guy to try and sign especially to that contract, yes. No need for 20/20 hindsight to see what a disaster and horrible idea signing Richards would have been, many people said it at the time.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why am I complaining? Because a trade like this just shows me how out of touch our management is with reality. It's like they don't even see what other players get in return or what other managers are doing. We undervalue our own assets and overvalue that of other teamss... that's not how managers should operate.

We apparently want to get big and tough, but we take on 2 brutal players and their brutal contracts in the process? Why? So when can secure 30th place in the league 3 months sooner?

It's trades like these that worry me. It simply doesn't make sense.

Man, I don't get it. This is a lateral move that will not affect the future of the Flames at all. We get younger, we get bigger, whats the problem? Tanguay had a NMC so there wasn't very many options. Is it that shocking he goes back to where he was drafted and won a cup? Especially after he completely checked out last year. You need to calm down, Jones will be just fine for the rebuilding Flames.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The only asset Jones has is his shot. He is awful to below average in every other aspect.

This is simply untrue. No question his last year was bad, but when he became a UFA, he was a very interesting candidate. Relatively young, big body with speed and a scoring touch. The Avs probably paid 500k-1mm too much, but no body thought he was below average or awful at everything but shooting. Get real! Have you ever seen the guy play? In past years against the Flames, he was a very difficult guy to deal with. He is a good player who could play on virtually any NHL roster.

[djsFlames]

People..

Fact is, we were pushovers, even doormats last season, and that in itself was a glaring weakness. No grit, rarely "out muscling" opponents (Especially in the forward ranks). Everybody seemed to be molding their game after the super-soft Tanguay. And our tactics always came down to trying to skate around defenders, and when we played big teams like the Ducks or LA, we got crushed.

With the additions of Jones and Knight on the front end, we're already taking a pretty nice step towards being bigger and harder on the puck. If O'Brien brings some grit in a 3rd pairing role too and manages to piss of the Oil and Canucks, then all the better. So long as he isn't a huge liability out there.

But we're starting to have an over abundance of 3rd line (and projected 3rd line) centers now though. Stajan, Backlund, Knight, Horak, Reinhart. If we're going to bring in our 6th pick to play, or sign a free agent top 2 center, then someone has to be unloaded. It only makes sense. Cammy will hang around a bit longer, but don't be surprised to see Feaster shopping Stajan and Backlund around. I'm a big Backlund fan myself, but the way they talked about him at year's end made him sound expendable. Perhaps one of those expendable "assets" that Feaster was talking about going into the draft.

Need to make room for the Monahans, Barkovs, and on July 5th, the Lecavaliers, Weisses or Filpullas. Someone's coming in. So, question is.. who's getting pushed out?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Are you sure you're that confident in that statement?

Yep.

Originally Posted by DropIt

And even if you are, I love how the statement has regressed from 'another shot at the cup' to 'another crack at making the playoffs'

Another crack a the play-offs is another shot at the Cup. I know it's been a while, but the process on how to win the Cup hasn't changed in what? 30 years now? They're not favorites, but they will get a chance to play for it.

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Shane O'Brien sucks and I hate him. You are welcome to make fun of him any time on this forum IMO. I hope he sits in the press box all 82 games, planning his epic Vegas party. At least Hartley will make him do mountain climbers after he shows up late to practice.

I feel bad for you guys, but really as a fan of a opposing team I am happy he stayed in the division.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And how much did Glencross make when we first acquired him? Hell, how much does he make now?

Sorry for the double post, but again, what is the problem with the cap hits? We gain 500k in salary. This does not handcuff us in the slightest. Not to mention, we won't be spending to the cap for what? 4-5 seasons anyway? Again, calm down.

[Ashasx]

I'm not content with these kinds of trades... and it's all we've gotten since Feaster took over.

I'm not going to post any more on this, but I think it's odd that we will defend every move the Flames make when we have more reason to do the opposite.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

Touche on the facts.

I understand Jones is no prize, but he's certainly better than last years's numbers indicate IMO. Likely somewhere in the middle.. 15G-30P player. Solid 3rd liner that can fill in on the 2nd line when needed.

Jones will be overpaid for sure, but Tanguay would've been as well.

I agree completely, I would say It's not what we got in return (salary and all), but basically trading the older, yet effective offensive winger for basically a downgrade while gaining nothing in return except added salary. If there was even a 3-4th round pick involved I would have absolutely no problem with the deal.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

People..

Fact is, we were pushovers, even doormats last season, and that in itself was a glaring weakness. No grit, rarely "out muscling" opponents (Especially in the forward ranks). Everybody seemed to be molding their game after the super-soft Tanguay. And our tactics always came down to trying to skate around defenders, and when we played big teams like the Ducks or LA, we got crushed.

With the additions of Jones and Knight on the front end, we're already taking a pretty nice step towards being bigger and harder on the puck. If O'Brien brings some grit in a 3rd line role too and manages to piss of the Oil and Canucks, then all the better. So long as he isn't a huge liability out there.

The problem with this logic, and I think one of the reasons why Ashasx is so mad about this trade, is the fact that even though Jones is a big body, he does not use it. At best he's a Bourque physically, at worse he shies away from any physical contact. Adding Jones doesn't help us get tougher with the puck. It just improves our average height for our team. Jones however will give us secondary goals and be solid on the 2nd PP next year. He's had "bad luck" so to say the past 2 years, and if he had some more bounces he probably could have matched that 27 goal season last year and gotten 10-14 goals this season.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm not content with these kinds of trades... and it's all we've gotten since Feaster took over.

I'm not going to post any more on this, but I think it's odd that we will defend every move the Flames make when we have more reason to do the opposite.

You're right, this place is a shining beacon of optimism and I'm sick of it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

People..

Fact is, we were pushovers, even doormats last season, and that in itself was a glaring weakness. No grit, rarely "out muscling" opponents (Especially in the forward ranks). Everybody seemed to be molding their game after the super-soft Tanguay. And our tactics always came down to trying to skate around defenders, and when we played big teams like the Ducks or LA, we got crushed.

With the additions of Jones and Knight on the front end, we're already taking a pretty nice step towards being bigger and harder on the puck. If O'Brien brings some grit in a 3rd pairing role too and manages to piss of the Oil and Canucks, then all the better. So long as he isn't a huge liability out there.

But we're starting to have an over abundance of 3rd line (and projected 3rd line) centers now though. Stajan, Backlund, Knight, Horak, Reinhart. If we're going to bring in our 6th pick to play, or sign a free agent top 2 center, then someone has to be unloaded. It only makes sense. Cammy will hang around a bit longer, but don't be surprised to see Feaster shopping Stajan and Backlund around. I'm a big Backlund fan myself, but the way they talked about him at year's end made him sound expendable. Perhaps one of those expendable "assets" that Feaster was talking about going into the draft.

Need to make room for the Monahans, Barkovs, and on July 5th, the Lecavaliers, Weisses or Filpullas. Someone's coming in. So, question is.. who's getting pushed out?

The Flames having nothing but second and third line centers. ..in over abundance..that is shocking.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You're right, this place is a shining beacon of optimism and I'm sick of it.

Well come on MMF, you have to admit that people saying this is a win for the Flames (with some even saying clear win) is basically just being defensive of the club. It's not really an honest view.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm not content with these kinds of trades... and it's all we've gotten since Feaster took over.

I'm not going to post any more on this, but I think it's odd that we will defend every move the Flames make when we have more reason to do the opposite.

What other trade was like this...really just the Regehr trade.

Bouwmeester, Iginla...traded for picks and prospects.

We still need to dress a roster, we just can't trade every veteran for a draft pick.

Trade met three of Flames needs: Size, grit, RW and we gave a player that many here wanted gone due to his style of play and attitude.

[TorqueDog]

As much as I liked Tanguay when we brought him back along with Jokinen, he is not a guy who is going to lead a team offensively, and it was pretty obvious he wasn't happy to be here after Iginla was dealt and the 'rebuild' was all but official.

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Shane O'Brien sucks and I hate him. You are welcome to make fun of him any time on this forum IMO. I hope he sits in the press box all 82 games, planning his epic Vegas party. At least Hartley will make him do mountain climbers after he shows up late to practice.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm not content with these kinds of trades... and it's all we've gotten since Feaster took over.

I'm not going to post any more on this, but I think it's odd that we will defend every move the Flames make when we have more reason to do the opposite.

Who decides when there is more or less reason to defend or criticize a trade?

You?