Conrad Black: Public-sector unions are a blight on our society

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/25/tdsb-sick-days/

New figures from the Toronto District School Board show a 22% spike in teachers reporting in sick last month compared to the previous year, and a 53% jump from three years ago.

This is little more than the result of what happens when you have a government that is only interested in buying union votes.

In the words of Homer Simpson: "Democracy. Doesn't. Work."

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ark2

This is little more than the result of what happens when you have a government that is only interested in buying union votes.

In the words of Homer Simpson: "Democracy. Doesn't. Work."

Huh? How do you see the government TAKING AWAY banked sick leave as "buying union votes"?

I think the McGuinty Bill 115 has left a lot of teachers pissed off. Although the bill didnt pass, most of the elements did. They had their pay frozen, are forced to take more unpaid PD days and they are given 6 sick days a year. Many here on this very forum admitted to taking "mental health days" to refocus. So if it is coming up on the end of the school year, you have extra sick days, you get absolutely no benefit for not using them, AND you are pissed off with your employer, I can't see how they didn't foresee this happening.

However I heard that one group.. Uhm, the elementary teachers... Just negotiated a new contract; it has 11 sick days, and a bonus goes to any teacher that takes less than six. But banking leave is still out.

[MarchHare]

So if it is coming up on the end of the school year, you have extra sick days, you get absolutely no benefit for not using them

Nor should you! Sick days are not an alternate form of vacation. My private sector employer gives me ten paid sick days per year. In the last three years, I have taken 0, 2, and 0.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Huh? How do you see the government TAKING AWAY banked sick leave as "buying union votes"?

I think the McGuinty Bill 115 has left a lot of teachers pissed off. Although the bill didnt pass, most of the elements did. They had their pay frozen, are forced to take more unpaid PD days and they are given 6 sick days a year. Many here on this very forum admitted to taking "mental health days" to refocus. So if it is coming up on the end of the school year, you have extra sick days, you get absolutely no benefit for not using them, AND you are pissed off with your employer, I can't see how they didn't foresee this happening.

However I heard that one group.. Uhm, the elementary teachers... Just negotiated a new contract; it has 11 sick days, and a bonus goes to any teacher that takes less than six. But banking leave is still out.

I'm not sure what exactly it is that you don't understand here. The Provincial Liberal government has been buying the teacher vote for the last decade which has created this culture of entitlement that has thereby given way to this whole mindset that teachers had "better use sick days because they won't get any compensation for them later if they don't."

You don't see people in the private sector scrambling to use all of their sick days before the fiscal year is over because they won't get anything for them, because the private sector has never expected any kind of compensation for un-used sick days. Sick days are for when you are sick, not for some additional form of compensation. End of story. The lack of moral integrity displayed by these teachers is very disappointing.

[Devils'Advocate]

MH: Where were you in the other thread? Virtually everyone admitted to taking sick days off when they were not sick.... I have taken 4 sick days over the last 4 years and two of those were to have surgery.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ark2

You don't see people in the private sector scrambling to use all of their sick days before the fiscal year is over because they won't get anything for them, because the private sector has never expected any kind of compensation for un-used sick days. Sick days are for when you are sick, not for some additional form of compensation. End of story.

Oh that's BS. I have worked in the private sector and there were plenty of guys (and gals) that would take every little bit of sick leave they had coming to them. I actually saw more abuse in the private sector, possibly because here we CAN bank the sick leave. Since we have no short term disability plan, I see it as insurance against a major illness.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Where were you in the other thread? Virtually everyone admitted to taking sick days off when they were not sick.... I have taken 4 sick days over the last 4 years and two of those were to have surgery.

Sorry, I must have missed the other thread.

Were the people there admitting to using their entire allotment of sick days every year regardless of whether they needed them or not (i.e. treating sick days as guaranteed time off with pay, i.e. vacation days by another name), or were they admitting that they took the odd quote-unquote sick day when they didn't necessarily need to?

[Devils'Advocate]

Nobody admitted they used all their sick days as that wasn't the question asked. Nor do I think the teachers are using their full allotment either.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Oh that's BS. I have worked in the private sector and there were plenty of guys (and gals) that would take every little bit of sick leave they had coming to them. I actually saw more abuse in the private sector, possibly because here we CAN bank the sick leave. Since we have no short term disability plan, I see it as insurance against a major illness.

Give me a break

How many people take all of their sick day allotment because they won't get paid for them in the private sector vs. those working in the Ontario teacher's unions? I doubt that it is even close.

[PsYcNeT]

All those public sector employees taking all their extra sick time off is costing me TENS of DOLLARS a YEAR!!!

[Brannigans Law]

I don't have much else to add in this thread other than

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Nor should you! Sick days are not an alternate form of vacation. My private sector employer gives me ten paid sick days per year. In the last three years, I have taken 0, 2, and 0.

My hero

[Flash Walken]

I think the sick day argument is pretty funny/weak, especially when talking about the teachers union.

These are teachers, not provincial pencil pushers sitting in a cubicle. It's a hard, stressful job.

If we cared about our future citizens, we should probably give teachers more mental health days.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

All those public sector employees taking all their extra sick time off is costing me TENS of DOLLARS a YEAR!!!

So your really ok with the expense abuse int the Senate because really its only 10's of dollars for year.

They're both forms of workplace theft.

[Tinordi]

Agreed entirely Flash.

First, they spend their entire work days in a classroom which is about a half a step up from a quarantine ward.

Second, mental health days are completely legitimate. Our culture's idiotic neglect of mental health issues shows no signs of abating at least among the divined in this thread.

*rabble rabble* Teachers taking sicks days! *rabble*

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Nobody admitted they used all their sick days as that wasn't the question asked. Nor do I think the teachers are using their full allotment either.

I can't speak for teachers in Ontario, but my sister is an elementary school teacher in New Brunswick, and she assures me that both she and all her colleagues treat their sick days as entitled days off and use the full allotment every single year. She once complained to me that it's hard to find a substitute teacher in June because so many teachers are calling in "sick" to make sure they use all their days prior to the end of the school year.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So your really ok with the expense abuse int the Senate because really its only 10's of dollars for year.

They're both forms of workplace theft.

Oh god? Really? How many bags of beef jerky could I have bought with that theft?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think the sick day argument is pretty funny/weak, especially when talking about the teachers union.

These are teachers, not provincial pencil pushers sitting in a cubicle. It's a hard, stressful job.

If we cared about our future citizens, we should probably give teachers more mental health days.

They already get 11 weeks vacation! Not to mention 6 PA days which are little more than half days for them before they get to leave. How stressful do people really think teaching is?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Ark2

They already get 11 weeks vacation! Not to mention 6 PA days which are little more than half days for them before they get to leave. How stressful do people really think teaching is?

Likely a boatload more stressful than 95% of other jobs.

[MarchHare]

I have absolutely no problem with teachers taking sick days if they genuinely need them. I have an issue with teachers (or anyone else in any field of work, for that matter) taking sick days because they view them as entitled time off with pay.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Oh god? Really? How many bags of beef jerky could I have bought with that theft?

By the time you add up the totals, I'm betting we probably spend more on the sick days then the Senate expense claims.

You can't split hairs here, both are pretty much fraud in a civil service workplace.

Both probably don't cost a whole lot to the individual tax payers.

One is sexier then the other that is all.