Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Got this off HF:

People can now freak out.

Well Weisbrod and Button have both mentioned that Fucale is good so obviously they like him unless they're BSing. Zero chance we take him at #6. Would they take him with a later 1st? Wouldn't surprise me. Also wouldn't surprise me if he's gone by 22.

I'm not quite as anti-goalie in the 1st round as some people. It just has to be the right goalie. Defencemen and forwards busts quite regularly as well in the later 1st. If we could get a guy like Tukkka Rask in the late 1st I think we'd be pretty ecstatic.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by icecube

Mackinnon may be a better skater than Tavares, but he doesn't have his hands or shot. I'd much rather have Tavares.

I think that's a bit debateable. MacKinnon has an absolutely lethal wrist shot. He's obviously not the puckhandler that Drouin is but he's still very good.

Tavares is a pretty decent comparison. Some like to use Stamkos as a comparison. You may be underrating MacKinnon slightly it sounds like.

[CliffFletcher]

People seem to have different notions of what a blue-chip prospect is. IMHO, there are 4-5 blue-chippers drafted a year. Those are players who, by broad consensus, are expected to be difference-makers in the NHL. There are lots of players with high ceilings who are not blue-chippers because of deficiencies (skating, size, compete level, hockey IQ, etc). Blue-chippers are prospects who don't have those deficiencies. Gaudreau is extremely small. It's still 50/50 that he even sticks as an NHLer. That isn't a blue-chip prospect to me. Tyler Seguin was drafted 2nd overall, and could easily have gone 1st. He hasn't done nothing to indicate that was a bad pick.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think the only thing that would get me over the devastation of picking Fucale with the 6th pick, is the hilarious devastation of everyone here.

Maybe the Flames believes the way to becoming a cup contender is to have more goaltenders than centers in the organization. Maybe Feaster and Co. are ahead of the curve? Or maybe they could be incredibly stupid because IMO drafting a goaltender when the team has so many needs at center and defense in the organization would be pretty stupid especially given the Flames history with 1st round goaltenders.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think that's a bit debateable. MacKinnon has an absolutely lethal wrist shot. He's obviously not the puckhandler that Drouin is but he's still very good.

Tavares is a pretty decent comparison. Some like to use Stamkos as a comparison. You may be underrating MacKinnon slightly it sounds like.

I don't see MacKinnon showing me the goal scoring ability that Tavares did as a junior. I disagree that I'm underrating him. I just don't think he will end up being better than Tavares.

[TurdFerguson]

Tavares has long been my comparison for MacKinnon, for what a comparison is worth...sure there are areas where each excel compared to the other but the purpose of a comparison is to capture the essence of the player, not to say A=B etc. To that end, I have never really seen the Stamkos comparison.

Everyone sees (or doesn't) what they want I suppose.

[jschick88]

Craig Button was on TSN radio an hour ago. He continues to compare this coming draft to the 2003 draft. His final rankings are not out yet but he did say that he has Max Domi in his top 10.

[MikaelBacklund]

I pray the flames don't pick fucale, I don't like the idea of drafting a goalie from a stacked team, well atleast not in the 1st round.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

Tavares has long been my comparison for MacKinnon, for what a comparison is worth...sure there are areas where each excel compared to the other but the purpose of a comparison is to capture the essence of the player, not to say A=B etc. To that end, I have never really seen the Stamkos comparison.

Everyone sees (or doesn't) what they want I suppose.

Mackinnon doesn't remind me of Tavares at all, or Stamkos. His playing style seems much more like Zach Parise's IMO then those guys.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I always considered any kids in the top 10/20 blue chip while players after very good. I think teams and scouts have noticed what he did at the WJC but I don't think you will find any scout that isn't concerned about his size. He's really small.

Yeah this is where these terms become difficult.

I term top 20 guys "elite prospects" and top 50 guys blue chip.

Top 50 means if the prospects spread across all 30 teams it would be less than 2 of those prospects per team. So the top prospect in every system plus top 2 in deeper systems.

But yeah it all depends on what you attach to the terms.

[TurdFerguson]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Mackinnon doesn't remind me of Tavares at all, or Stamkos. His playing style seems much more like Zach Parise's IMO then those guys.

That is a comp I can certainly see. Themes to there game for sure. The biggest thing I see with MacKinnon is his ability to generate. Not so much the finishing or the direct setup abilities but his ability to dictate play and create opportunities all over the ice. The same way that Crosby has a way of dominating a shift by "being everywhere".

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by icecube

I don't see MacKinnon showing me the goal scoring ability that Tavares did as a junior. I disagree that I'm underrating him. I just don't think he will end up being better than Tavares.

Tavares did have some gaudy numbers at times. Can't remember his linemates though, did he have options like Drouin and Frk to defer to?

In their draft years:

Tavares
Reg Season - 56GP 58G 46A 104P
Playoffs - 14GP 10G 11A 21P

MacKinnon
Reg Season - 44GP 32G 43A 75P
Playoffs - 17GP 11G 22A 33P

Tavares probably has a better slapshot and better hands around the net to score those garbage goals. MacKinnon has a better wrister.

Both are premiere talents. MacKinnon's game is based more on speed and I think he can make more of an impact at both ends. He's stronger on the puck than Tavares and plays more of a power game. Tavares does dangle a bit more. Tavares is very opportunistic.

Both great young players. I don't think MacKinnon is a big step down from Tavares that's for sure.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah this is where these terms become difficult.

I term top 20 guys "elite prospects" and top 50 guys blue chip.

Top 50 means if the prospects spread across all 30 teams it would be less than 2 of those prospects per team. So the top prospect in every system plus top 2 in deeper systems.

But yeah it all depends on what you attach to the terms.

When you consider where he was picked if he becomes a full time NHL player he would become possibly the steal of the draft. Outside of his size I recall a thread that detailed an article about his diet in that he eats a lot of junk food (or something like that). If true that concerns me because of all players he's one that's going to have to get on a fitness and muscle building regime.

[dammage79]

Agree with Ninja. MacKinnon looks more like a Parise type to me than Tavares or Stamkos.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you consider where he was picked if he becomes a full time NHL player he would become possibly the steal of the draft. Outside of his size I recall a thread that detailed an article about his diet in that he eats a lot of junk food (or something like that). If true that concerns me because of all players he's one that's going to have to get on a fitness and muscle building regime.

Agreed - I recall that as well and it set off some alarm bells

Right now the steal of the draft is easily Andrew Shaw - 139th pick has already played over 80 games in the NHL, scoring 21 goals...while hitting like a freight train.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=672471

Dear lord please let us stay away

the above quote you could apply to... Alexei Kovalev in his prime over say Mats Sundin. But I know who I would rather have over the course of his career.

[Metro Gnome]

Originally Posted by T@T

I think more like 100+ if he had anyone to play with.

His wingers were:

Stralen, can hardly skate but managed 39 points
Blandisi, got a point per game with Monahan after coming over from Owen Sound. he wasn't near a PPG guy before.

His old winger Janes had 27 points in 36 games with Monahan before being traded, after the trade he had 9 points in the next 26.

When you look at it he makes his linemates better, he was in on 15% of his teams total points despite only playing 58 games, without looking I doubt any of the other top guys beat this.

Monahan was in on 40% of his teams scoring in the games he played, which is a pretty high rate. That said, he was very dependent on the PP for his scoring - he scored as many points on the man advantage as at ES.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by saillias

Dear lord please let us stay away

the above quote you could apply to... Alexei Kovalev in his prime over say Mats Sundin. But I know who I would rather have over the course of his career.

Yeah, I am not a fan of a player who is already trying to engineer his own place on whatever NHL team that drafts him. Its good that he has gotten out of his KHL contract (partially) but the deal is very clear - he plays in the NHL next season or he will be in the KHL.

Its not the end of the world but I would rather see him commit to playing North American hockey next year regardless of whether it is in the NHL or WHL.

I like the comment out of Yakimov more:

"He'll play one more year [in the KHL], and then he'll come to the NHL," Gandler said. "If he's ready, great, and if not, he'll play in the American Hockey League for as long as it takes to be in the NHL."

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Its not the end of the world but I would rather see him commit to playing North American hockey next year regardless of whether it is in the NHL or WHL.

I thought that the "NHL or KHL only" stipulation was from the Dynamo and was a required condition for him to get his early release.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Agree with Ninja. MacKinnon looks more like a Parise type to me than Tavares or Stamkos.

Completely disagree, Parise never dominated physically like MacKinnon nor is he as powerful a skater.

Might be just me but I always felt Parise was very overrated, 2 nice years out of 7 should not give you anything close to superstar money. Minny is going to hate that contract if they don't already