Christ on the Cross - Time for a Rebranding?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

FWIW, I'm told that hell is described in the Bible as a condition more than a place. It's the condition where the whole wrath of god the father is directed against the person for their sins.

So you have the wrath of God and you have hell, and these are run by 2 separate entities, one good and one evil, yet they are the same?

what do you suppose the wrath of God would entail? mental abuse? physical abuse? maybe he gives one of your relatives on Earth cancer?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So you have the wrath of God and you have hell, and these are run by 2 sepsrate entities, one good and one evil, yet they are the same?

what do you suppose the wrath of God would entail? mental abuse? physical abuse? maybe he gives one of your relatives on Earth cancer?

A quick Google gives me this:

http://www.fillthevoid.org/Christian...scription.html

Christians look at is more as God is perfect and Holy, and is angry at people for sinning, and therefore Hell is a just punishment, but God is so good and kind that despite his anger at people's sins he gave his only son that whosoever should believe on him should be saved.

I'm also not sure why you say they are run by separate entities. If you are referring to god and the devil/Satan, the devil will be cast into hell by god, so god runs it all.

That being said, there is a lot difference from church to church in how hell is perceived, who will go there, what's Satan's role is in it, and that's largely because the Bible isn't particularly clear about it.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

A quick Google gives me this:

http://www.fillthevoid.org/Christian...scription.html

Christians look at is more as God is perfect and Holy, and is angry at people for sinning, and therefore Hell is a just punishment, but God is so good and kind that despite his anger at people's sins he gave his only son that whosoever should believe on him should be saved.

So, if you believe in him, but still sin, you'll be OK getting into heaven?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So, if you believe in him, but still sin, you'll be OK getting into heaven?

That's the point of the religion. Now, the thing is, there is where Catholics, Protestants, etc differ greatly from each other. Catholics believe that good works help merit salvation, while Protestants believe good works are the result of salvation. Catholics have purgatory to burn off the sins (which was used to great effect as a fundraiser in the middle ages) that occurred after a person's last baptism (which is why it's so important for Catholics to have deathbed baptism) , while Protestants believe that so long as they have faith, their sins are forgiven them.

[Traditional_Ale]

What's going to be awesome is that in another 400 years or so when everything Gene Roddenberry predicted in Star Trek has actually come to pass, he will become the new prophet. And an unequivocally legitimate one at that. Although I am sure mainstream religion will be long dead I am sure there will still be more than enough crazies to have some kind of cult worshipping him. I bet they'll live on Bajor.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

That's the point of the religion.

Well, that's what I'm going to do then, sin like a mofo, but still believe there was a guy who died and then came back to life 3 days later, and I'll go to heaven.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I disagree. Christianity is about the teachings of Jesus Christ. Rising from the dead means nothing without the teachings. I would imagine Christians would claim the teachings are still important if we could somehow prove that people can't be born of virgins, rise from the dead, and be their own father.

The focus on his violent death is morbid and unnecessary. He was a teacher.

IDK, if you love him so much I would think you guys would want to remember him in a more positive way. I have a cool picture of my Grandpa leaning against some 1940's car with cool 1940's stuff in the background hanging on my wall at home, not the photo I have of him days away from death in his hospital bed. I think he'd appreciate that.

LOL I don't often comment on these religious thread, but I do enjoy the fact that you are "disagreeing" with the very fundamental principle of Christianity.

[HerbalMagic]

Sliver would feel alot better if it was dogs on the cross i'm sure.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Well, that's what I'm going to do then, sin like a mofo, but still believe there was a guy who died and then came back to life 3 days later, and I'll go to heaven.

I clarified the comment, but trying to solve this is exactly (well almost, see edit below) the point that has caused there to be some many different Christian varieties.

This was clearly a reaction that many people during Paul's preaching too given he mentions it in http://biblehub.com/romans/6.htm.

However, you misunderstand what believe means to Christians (or Protestants at least). It doesn't mean that you believe the guy existed and came back to life 2-3 days later (although that too is required), but that you believe he died for your sins. Obviously that's not something that most people can just do at the last second. However, a slight variety of that is exactly what many people say. They will say something like, "I'm going to sin like a mofo, but believe that Christ died for my sins, and as a result, they are forgiven and I'll go to heaven".

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

That's what the majority (but not all) of Christians teach.

The majority of Christians (once again, not all) also believe in the Trinity, which is to say, One God in 3 persons and 3 persons in 1 god. It's a difficult concept to explain. Therefore, God to Jesus is himself, and god the father, and god the holy ghost. Christians believe only Jesus the person died, not the god.

FWIW, I'm told that hell is described in the Bible as a condition more than a place. It's the condition where the whole wrath of god the father is directed against the person for their sins.

I was always taught that Hell was the further place removed from the sight and love of god.

I do prefer Dante's interpretation of hell, mostly because he found some Pope's there when he went on his tour

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-i...formation.html

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was always taught that Hell was the further place removed from the sight and love of god.

I do prefer Dante's interpretation of hell, mostly because he found some Pope's there when he went on his tour

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-i...formation.html

That's pretty much the same thing if you believe that god is a righteous and angry god, but who loves the world and his people which is the only reason he hasn't destroyed it. When you remove love from this equation, your left only with god's anger.

[schteve_d]

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was always taught that Hell was the further place removed from the sight and love of god.

I do prefer Dante's interpretation of hell, mostly because he found some Pope's there when he went on his tour

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-i...formation.html

Even though that is interesting sci fi, I can't help but wonder why people don't ask how you are going to have a physical body, that is put through incredible amounts of abuse for eternity, when our bodies only last like 70 years on average.

Bodies are torn apart. When you arrive, you will want to put your hands over your ears because of the lamentations of the sinners here, who are afflicted with scabs like leprosy, and lay sick on the ground, furiously scratching their skin off with their nails. Indeed, justice divine doth smite them with its hammer.

[Locke]

I think Sliver is just going to have to man up, be a parent and tell his little precious princess about the big, bad scary world out there. Not everything you see is going to be all rainbows and sunshine and dog-less parks.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think Sliver is just going to have to man up, be a parent and tell his little precious princess about the big, bad scary world out there. Not everything you see is going to be all rainbows and sunshine and dog-less parks.

Speaking of which, some dope was letting their dog run around the playground by my house that has two "no dogs" signs just last night (no leash, of course). My kids pointed it out to the owner and so did I but they didn't care. They finally left when their dog bit their own kid's head, though.

That probably sounds like BS as what are the chances of that happening to me of all people, but it's true.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Even though that is interesting sci fi, I can't help but wonder why people don't ask how you are going to have a physical body, that is put through incredible amounts of abuse for eternity, when our bodies only last like 70 years on average.

Did you just call Dante's inferno Sci-Fi



Its considered one of the classics and a great works, and if anything it was a dark comedy and a great piece of satire.

Do you not think that the rules concerning the physical body would be I don't know slightly changed in hell since the punishment is considered eternal. Of that the bodies were representable as souls.

[TorqueDog]

So wait, a cult of human sacrifice has a 'branding' that celebrates the lone human sacrifice they believe to have been effective... this doesn't surprise you, Silver, does it?

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I understand fine. I studied religion in university and even have a minor in the subject.

Originally Posted by Sliver

I disagree. Christianity is about the teachings of Jesus Christ. Rising from the dead means nothing without the teachings. I would imagine Christians would claim the teachings are still important if we could somehow prove that people can't be born of virgins, rise from the dead, and be their own father.

The focus on his violent death is morbid and unnecessary. He was a teacher.

Really???

[PsYcNeT]

You know who really understands Christianity? Sunday morning Christians.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You know who really understands Christianity? Sunday morning Christians.

So me one follower of any religion who 100% understands it. The thing about religion is almost all of it is up for interpretation.