Poll: "Do you believe in the current mgmt group"

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

With all due respect, a large proportion of poll respondents do not have adequate insight, information and/or understanding to make a properly informed decision. Results may reflect opinion, but the opinion is only as good as the understanding of the situation that informs that opinion.

They may form an opinion based on the info available to them, but in more cases than not, I would expect the background knowledge and requisite understanding is in too short supply to make the results credible enough to be actionable.

Well, while don't disagree, your description fits politics to a tee. Doesn't prevent ill informed, or dogmatic, voters from exerting their will on the outcome....

As for the poll results, meh...the organization just finished 6th and now openly acknowledge that they delayed the rebuild longer than they should have. A poll on CP is going to make any impact anyways and is simply a fan barometer

Hard to have much confidence in that performance-not sure how anyone voted in the affirmative to be honest.

[MolsonInBothHands]

I would argue there is more we don't know than we know as an everyday fan. Given that a good portion of what we know is also based on misinformation and assumption. There are many arguments on this board that seem to evolve from baseless assumptions into facts and are trotted out endlessly. A recent example would be from those stating Feaster would have lost the picks, the signing bonus, and ROR to waivers had Colorado matched the offer as fact. This is no where near fact. Once Colorado matched, everything else became hypothetical.

We don't know locker room dynamics, we don't know trade offers that didn't progress to completion, we don't know teams that are exceptions to NMCs, we don't know coach and player issues, we don't know ownership directives, job interview results, draft interview results, scouting reports, accurate injury information. We know squat, and we consider ourselves to be the more informed fans by participating on this board.

I always get a kick out of how many different ways ONE line in a press conference can get twisted out of shape and context and used as a battle cry for months after. Or the "I can just see...." posts that regurgitate the same ridiculous outlandish scenarios that try to be funny CaptainCrunch style but they fail miserably. That is not a shot at CC, just an observation that many try to emulate your style of script writing and do a terrible job.

Heck many here still think a two way contract means you don't have to clear waivers! There is so much more to running this hockey team that we don't know, than we actually know. It isn't even close.

[FlamesAddiction]

While some of Feaster's decisions have been really terrible (like the Richards and O'Reilly offers), it also has to be pointed out that he took over a team that pissed away assets and areas of strength over the past few years. I don't think any GM could have came in and turned this thing around without going full rebuild, and I think it took until now for the owners to even entertain the thought. Would Feaster have made those decisions if the owners greenlit the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades before then? Who knows...

[FAN]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

There are many arguments on this board that seem to evolve from baseless assumptions into facts and are trotted out endlessly. A recent example would be from those stating Feaster would have lost the picks, the signing bonus, and ROR to waivers had Colorado matched the offer as fact. This is no where near fact. Once Colorado matched, everything else became hypothetical.

You are wrong. FACT. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was on record as saying that Ryan O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers to join the Flames.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by FAN

You are wrong. FACT. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was on record as saying that Ryan O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers to join the Flames.

And that one statement is infallable? OK. Thanks for proving my point.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

I would argue there is more we don't know than we know as an everyday fan. Given that a good portion of what we know is also based on misinformation and assumption. There are many arguments on this board that seem to evolve from baseless assumptions into facts and are trotted out endlessly. A recent example would be from those stating Feaster would have lost the picks, the signing bonus, and ROR to waivers had Colorado matched the offer as fact. This is no where near fact. Once Colorado matched, everything else became hypothetical.

We don't know locker room dynamics, we don't know trade offers that didn't progress to completion, we don't know teams that are exceptions to NMCs, we don't know coach and player issues, we don't know ownership directives, job interview results, draft interview results, scouting reports, accurate injury information. We know squat, and we consider ourselves to be the more informed fans by participating on this board.

I always get a kick out of how many different ways ONE line in a press conference can get twisted out of shape and context and used as a battle cry for months after. Or the "I can just see...." posts that regurgitate the same ridiculous outlandish scenarios that try to be funny CaptainCrunch style but they fail miserably. That is not a shot at CC, just an observation that many try to emulate your style of script writing and do a terrible job.

Heck many here still think a two way contract means you don't have to clear waivers! There is so much more to running this hockey team that we don't know, than we actually know. It isn't even close.

Yes there is more to the day to day things that we do not see. There is enough information available in internet, media, books and classes to figure out a lot of what gets done.

As for ROR, i dont care about the aftermath, the part that hurt is Feaster in his own words said ROR was an eilte center. He then tried to give him $6.5 million. Sorry but that is dumb and i thank the Av's for saving us.

There is plenty of stuff to evaluate Feaster on and you don't need to be in upper management to figure it out.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

While some of Feaster's decisions have been really terrible (like the Richards and O'Reilly offers), it also has to be pointed out that he took over a team that pissed away assets and areas of strength over the past few years. I don't think any GM could have came in and turned this thing around without going full rebuild, and I think it took until now for the owners to even entertain the thought. Would Feaster have made those decisions if the owners greenlit the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades before then? Who knows...

But would Feaster have been at all a worthy candidate to lead a rebuild based on his track record? I don't think so.

[MolsonInBothHands]

There is plenty of ammunition out there either way, what is public domain is not enough to make an informed decision IMO on whether someone should be canned or not. To argue you know everything is assinine.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

And that one statement is infallable? OK. Thanks for proving my point.

Umm... how did I prove your point? You were inferring that those who believed ROR would be lost to waivers had Colorado not matched was a baseless assumption. I told you that the deputy commisioner of the NHL was on record as saying that the rules dictate that ROR would have to pass through waivers to join the Flames.

The 2nd in command at the NHL front office went on record stating the NHL front office's interpretation of the rules. That holds more weight than any GM's interpretation of the rules.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Here is my assumption... Feaster said he wasn't the man for a rebuild because ownership and Iggy would not let that play out. That doesnt mean behind closed doors he didnt argue for it. As a husband and father I will present a united front to the kids on something my wife argues with the kids, but behind closed doors I may state how we could have handled that differently. Feaster is married to Edwards. LOL.

Now that direction has finally changed, I am willing to observe this draft and off season to see where this team goes. Yes it was steered in the wrong direction for two years, but IMO that was due to trying to achieve directives from above that were misguided. I think the management team now hasn more autonomy. I am willing to give him a little more rope.

As for King. He needs a promotion, and he needs to focus on the new rink.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FAN

But would Feaster have been at all a worthy candidate to lead a rebuild based on his track record? I don't think so.

Feaster on his own, I think not. Feaster + Weisbrod + Conroy = maybe.


I don't know how his management team worked in Tampa though. Was he just the right hand of the owners? Did he have the right people supporting him, or was he a one-man wolf pack? I honestly think that management is a team game just as much as the actual product itself. The dictatorial approach probably wouldn't work for him, not being a "hockey guy", but if he relies on the right people, I think he may be a good manager.

I'm not 100% sold on him though, but I think he deserves a little more time now that the gameplan has allowed for more wiggle room it seems.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by FAN

Umm... how did I prove your point? You were inferring that those who believed ROR would be lost to waivers had Colorado not matched was a baseless assumption. I told you that the deputy commisioner of the NHL was on record as saying that the rules dictate that ROR would have to pass through waivers to join the Flames.

The 2nd in command at the NHL front office went on record stating the NHL front office's interpretation of the rules. That holds more weight than any GM's interpretation of the rules.

You took one tidbit of information and made your decision. Could he have been wrong? The DOU stated otherwise. The fact is you just jumped the gun.

[atb]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

With all due respect, a large proportion of poll respondents do not have adequate insight, information and/or understanding to make a properly informed decision. Results may reflect opinion, but the opinion is only as good as the understanding of the situation that informs that opinion.

They may form an opinion based on the info available to them, but in more cases than not, I would expect the background knowledge and requisite understanding is in too short supply to make the results credible enough to be actionable.

With all due respect, I didn't suggest anywhere that the poll results be actionable or that they reflect anything more than people's opinion. While the background knowledge, requisite understanding, and adequate insight may be in short supply, it probably isn't a positive sign that a large percentage of the fan base are interested in change at the management level.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Here is my assumption... Feaster said he wasn't the man for a rebuild because ownership and Iggy would not let that play out. That doesnt mean behind closed doors he didnt argue for it. As a husband and father I will present a united front to the kids on something my wife argues with the kids, but behind closed doors I may state how we could have handled that differently. Feaster is married to Edwards. LOL.

So then he is a liar that allows other people make hockey decisions for him and go against what he believes?

Awesome. Sounds like a great guy to lead our hockey team and make hockey decisions going forward.

I just don't understand all the conspiracy theories that get made up to try and defend Feaster.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

I would argue there is more we don't know than we know as an everyday fan. Given that a good portion of what we know is also based on misinformation and assumption. There are many arguments on this board that seem to evolve from baseless assumptions into facts and are trotted out endlessly. A recent example would be from those stating Feaster would have lost the picks, the signing bonus, and ROR to waivers had Colorado matched the offer as fact. This is no where near fact. Once Colorado matched, everything else became hypothetical.

Misinformation? Does the abysmal record of the team this season not speak for itself? The way he made the team small and easy to play against only to do an about face and say the team now has to get bigger? Has Feaster not put his foot in his mouth multitple times as Flames GM? Has any of Feasters trades or signings (as Flames GM or Lightning GM) shown strokes of brilliance that would provide fans with some comfort that he's the man to see this rebuild through? His Brad Richards trade was awful as were his drafts with the Lightning. Most believe he didn't get enough for Bouwmeester or Iginla. I'm not saying he's the worst GM ever but I simply haven't seen enough positives over his 2.5 seasons to feel overly positive about him making big decisions in what is a critical juncture for this franchise. The right moves could see this team relevant again in a few years. The wrong moves could sink this team back to the depths of the mid-90's when they were hopeless year to year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

So then he is a liar that allows other people make hockey decisions for him and go against what he believes?

Awesome. Sounds like a great guy to lead our hockey team and make hockey decisions going forward.

I just don't understand all the conspiracy theories that get made up to try and defend Feaster.

Yeah it's not like the Flames owners put a gun to Feaster's head and told him to say that he wasn't the man for a rebuild. That as all on Jay Feaster. He didn't have to say that but he did and that's because he probably believe it at the time.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by moon

So then he is a liar that allows other people make hockey decisions for him and go against what he believes?

Awesome. Sounds like a great guy to lead our hockey team and make hockey decisions going forward.

I just don't understand all the conspiracy theories that get made up to try and defend Feaster.

LOL.

Do you think he is the first GM to not divulge the 100% truth in a presser? LOL.

Conspiracy theory? LOL. No. But if you expect truth from a press conference we are going to go through a lot of management teams.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

LOL.

Do you think he is the first GM to not divulge the 100% truth in a presser? LOL.

No I don't think that and never said or indicated that I did.

What I do think is that GM"s don't come out and repeatedly lie 100% to the media/fans for no reason and make statements that end up making them look like idiots for no reason.

Conspiracy theory? LOL. No. But if you expect truth from a press conference we are going to go through a lot of management teams.

Not sure what else to call the accusations of ownership meddling when there is 0 eveidence and everyone is coming out saying that it is not true. It also makes little to no sense that Feaster would submarine his career after leaving his last job in TB due to ownership meddling.

Neither comment does anything to address the fact that Feaster with makes bad decisions or is so weak that he lets others with no hockey background make decisions. Either way nothing to do with press conferences and both terrible qualities to have in a GM going forward.

[nik-]

For a quick status

Feaster: 66% opposed
King: 69% opposed

That's pretty high for a forum that's been historically pretty trusting/balanced

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Misinformation? Does the abysmal record of the team this season not speak for itself? The way he made the team small and easy to play against only to do an about face and say the team now has to get bigger? Has Feaster not put his foot in his mouth multitple times as Flames GM? Has any of Feasters trades or signings (as Flames GM or Lightning GM) shown strokes of brilliance that would provide fans with some comfort that he's the man to see this rebuild through? His Brad Richards trade was awful as were his drafts with the Lightning. Most believe he didn't get enough for Bouwmeester or Iginla. I'm not saying he's the worst GM ever but I simply haven't seen enough positives over his 2.5 seasons to feel overly positive about him making big decisions in what is a critical juncture for this franchise. The right moves could see this team relevant again in a few years. The wrong moves could sink this team back to the depths of the mid-90's when they were hopeless year to year.

Your hyperbole, and the rollercoaster your posts are, are a perfect example of what I am talking about. Many understand hands were tied behind his back in situations like the Iginla trade, but you pick and choose your facts and come up with your forgone conclusion.

Many were sure he would trade away prospects or picks to win this year. He didnt? Will you give him credit for that? Many wanted Iginla gone to turn the page. The timing for that to happen was very much out of his control,but it has finally happened, and many are happy with what they see happening with the youth as a result. Credit? I dont see glaring mistakes in draftng, I have optimism there,but we shall see. Boumeester was a buyout candidate last year, he got a first for him. Credit? It was the coaching change that did that I suppose?

There was a lot of mess to clean up that wasnt going to be done before the meaningful work could start. That includes philosphies from above. I am not saying he is without fault, but he hasnt made a fatal mistake to warrant dismissal IMO.

The arguments remain the same, and we can spin it it forever. The main point I am trying to make was that we as fans do not know near as much as we think, and to say otherwise, to spit your kind of hyperbole, to declare things black and white is foolish.