Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

81% chance of drafting top 6, 92% of drafting top 7.

1. Jones
2. MacKinnon
3. Drouin
4. Barkov
5. Lindholm
6. Monohan

81% chance one of those six players is a Flame in two months.

(Unless Flames list is off the board)

Not sure Monahan will hit the NHL instantly. Outside the top 3, I think a few teams will be keen to let them mature a little more before making the NHL ice.

Barkov and Lindholm might make the jump to the AHL instantly, but I can't see Monahan moving out from his spot right now.

[albertGQ]

I want us to keep all three of our first rounders and just make our picks

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Teroy

I think we draft 5th or 6th. Barkov will probably go 4th. Nichushkin had 12 goals and only 4 assists. I don't know how you build a team around a low scoring Centre. Lindholm isn't much better in that regard; 11 goals and 20 assists. So my choice would be the defenceman Nurse; 12 goals and 29 assists. He could become your #1 pairing D. If we don't pick Nurse then I'd go with Shinkaruk; 37 goals and 49 assists. He's got the height to add a few pounds. He plays either wing and we need a RW. Our next pick doesn't come up till about #20. I still like Rychel. He's a Centre, 6'1"/200 lbs and playing on a very weak Windsor Spitfires put up great numbers. I'd go with Klimchuk with the Pens draft choice. He's a Centre, got height to add a few pounds and very good numbers

You are focusing too much on their stats without considering what level they are playing at. You can't compare the numbers of somebody playing junior hockey against 17, 18, and 19 year olds to someone playing in Sweden or Russia against pro hockey players of various players. That's just silly.

Watch them play, read about their game or put their stats into context. And frankly it's silly to judge them strictly on numbers even if you do put them into the proper context.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Teroy

So you're telling me that a player like Nuchushkin who scored 12 goals and 4 assists is suddenly going to become a scoring sensation in the NHL. Think!!!

One of the dumbest statements in this thread. And I'm not even a fan of picking Nichushkin.

Are you trolling us?

Look in the mirror bro. It is you who aren't thinking.

I guess Teroy Jenkins is the newest addition to the ignore list.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by kn

Assuming we have the fifth or sixth pick and no lower, do you think the #2 or #3 pick would exchange picks along with BOTH St. Louis and Pittsburgh picks?

I seriously don't know if that's an over payment or not enough.

From my line of thinking, wouldn't getting MacKinnon or Drouin alone make the draft a success? It doesn't really matter who else we draft after selecting one of them.

Quality > Quanity

I've been wondering this myself, so I've been having a look at some previous draft-day moves to secure picks in the top 5.

Brian Burke's date with Swedish identical twins:

Already possessing the third overall draft pick, Burke would deal young defenceman Bryan McCabe and a future first-round selection to the Chicago Blackhawks to secure the fourth overall pick. Burke would then flip the fourth pick along with a pair of thirds to secure the first overall pick from the Tampa Bay Lightning.

With the first and third picks in hand, Burke made a final deal to give the Atlanta Thrashers the first overall selection (in exchange for #2 overall + a 3rd rounder) , which they would use on top prospect Patrik Stefan.

Burke then stepped up to the podium and selected Daniel and Henrik second and third overall respectively, beginning a run of 11-plus seasons in Vancouver that would see the pair emerge as one of the most formidable in the league.

So in '99:

4th overall pick = Bryan McCabe (highly thought-of at the time) + future 1st rounder

1st overall pick = 4th overall pick + 2 3rd rounders


Columbus, desperate for Rick Nash:

Columbus had been in the third draft position, but traded draft spots with Florida and also has the option to swap first-round selections with Florida next season, apparently not wanting to take any chances on the availability of Nash, who only turned 18 six days ago.

In 2002:

1st overall = 3rd overall + conditional pick in 2003

MA Fleury to Pittsburgh

The next year Dudley would connect with the Penguins, again dealing the first overall pick so Pittsburgh could select Marc-Andre Fleury. Acquiring an extra second round pick and forward Mikael Samuelsson, Dudley would land highly-touted prospect Nathan Horton with the third overall pick in what would go down as one of the best draft classes in NHL history.

In 2003, a very deep draft year:

1st overall = 3rd overall, 2nd rounder & Mikael Samuelsson

In addition to these there's also the Pronger trade in '93 (another Brian Burke deal):

2nd overall (Pronger) + 2nd rounder = 6th overall + 3rd rounder + rights to Sergei Makarov (lol)



If these are the precedents then I believe Jay Feaster is armed with everything he needs to make a deal in this draft. Our 1st (around 5-7) + Pittsburgh's pick + a roster player should be enough to move up, if a team in the top positions feels they can afford to move down.

If anything we should temporarily hire Brian Burke. I bet he could net us Mackinnon & Drouin...

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'll stop there.

I meant number one centres is the league, not on the Flames.

Also, I really hope Feaster stays on the bard with this pick. I would annoyed with another Jankowski type risk.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I meant number one centres is the league, not on the Flames.

Also, I really hope Feaster stays on the bard with this pick. I would annoyed with another Jankowski type risk.

The Jankowski pick of this draft is the big Russian. Don't be surprised to see the Flames grab him if available. Timbit seems to have some insight into the way the team thinks.

I hope someone before us picks him and assumes the risk. I see another Svitov or Nazarov more so than Malkin. I'd prefer the Flames go after Lindholm and support that pick with another center later on in the draft. My first round would be Lindholm, Gauthier and Mantha, and concentrate on developing these guys, something the Flames have been poor at.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Jankowski pick of this draft is the big Russian. Don't be surprised to see the Flames grab him if available. Timbit seems to have some insight into the way the team thinks.

I hope someone before us picks him and assumes the risk. I see another Svitov or Nazarov more so than Malkin. I'd prefer the Flames go after Lindholm and support that pick with another center later on in the draft. My first round would be Lindholm, Gauthier and Mantha, and concentrate on developing these guys, something the Flames have been poor at.

Yeah, I don't want the Russian. Too easy to stay home when you get offered millions

[Erick Estrada]

I don't think that we should be worried about drafting Nichushkin. After going high risk with last year's first round pick I doubt we see it with this pick. Too many other good players will be available in the range they are picking. Too much on the line for a team that has no elite players on the roster, who's top two prospect is are both undersized forwards that may or may not pan out into good/great players.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think that we should be worried about drafting Nichushkin. After going high risk with last year's first round pick I doubt we see it with this pick. Too many other good players will be available in the range they are picking.

Really depends where our pick ends up being.

Let's say we pick 7th... If Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm & Monahan are gone...

Leaves us with Nurse, Shinkaruk, Hagg, Lazar, Zadorov... and Nichuskin... (as far as most scouting ranks go at least)

If those "top 6" (how I see it anyway) are gone, I think the Flames take Nichuskin with their first pick if he's still around. Yes we'd have to wait a couple years for Nichuskin, but if he's the next Malkin/Ovechkin, he's worth that wait.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm really, really hoping the Flames pick 5th or lower. If they rise to 7th or higher then things change. Still not sold on picking this kid unless they have assurances and feel 100% he's going to play in the NHL long term. I haven't read up on his character but another thing I would prefer is to avoid drafting a clown like Yakupov regardless of his skill level.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Icon

Really depends where our pick ends up being.

Let's say we pick 7th... If Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm & Monahan are gone...

Leaves us with Nurse, Shinkaruk, Hagg, Lazar, Zadorov... and Nichuskin... (as far as most scouting ranks go at least)

If those "top 6" (how I see it anyway) are gone, I think the Flames take Nichuskin with their first pick if he's still around. Yes we'd have to wait a couple years for Nichuskin, but if he's the next Malkin/Ovechkin, he's worth that wait.

If he were the next Malkin or Ovechkin he would be going number one and not end up going in the bottom half of the top 10.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by timbit

Hoping for the Russian. Looks too much like Malkin.

Me too, size excites me.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Me too, size excites me.

That's what she said.

[nik-]

Meh ... I'm pretty iffy on that Russian for the obvious reasons. If we have this crap season, trade our franchise player, have our franchise goalie retire and don't end up with at least a good center prospect, I'll be pissed.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by New Era

If he were the next Malkin or Ovechkin he would be going number one and not end up going in the bottom half of the top 10.

The only reason he isn't is because the flaky Russian factor.

Skill or potential alone he'd he a talked about number one.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The only reason he isn't is because the flaky Russian factor.

Skill or potential alone he'd he a talked about number one.

Then again, the mental and situation factors are pretty strong. I mean, Kirill Kabanov was talked of as a 1st rounder in terms of skill and potential (though, to be fair, part of CP blew up when Sutter took Reinhart instead of Kabanov). Fair enough that Kabanov's off-ice situation was nothing short of a disaster, but potential and projection can't be the only factor considered.

[Roof-Daddy]

I really want the Flames to load up on centers at this draft, so I'm hoping BPA with each 1st round pick is a solid option at center, based on their list.

But a solid, big tough all round Dman wouldn't hurt my feelings so it would be great to strut away from the draft with:

One of: MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monohan
One of: Jones/Nurse/Zadorov/Ristolainen

Would have to trade up though to walk away with one out of each of those groups of players, so it's highly unlikely the above scenario happens.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think that we should be worried about drafting Nichushkin. After going high risk with last year's first round pick I doubt we see it with this pick.

That assumes to much. Firstly that Nichushkin is high risk, he's not high risk in the same sense that Jankowski was high risk... that being that he has higher then average bust potential. If he aces the interviews then I don't think he's all that high of a risk... I took a look at Russians drafted in the first round over the past 10 years and of the 19 that were drafted only three didn't comeover/havn't signed. Of the three that havn't one died, and the other two were 2010 or later draftee's (so too soon to say that they won't).

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Too many other good players will be available in the range they are picking. Too much on the line for a team that has no elite players on the roster

Good players though... "good" not "elite". If Nichushkin projects as elite (which many scouts say that he does) I would be choked if Feaster passed on a elite player all other things being equal.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Good players though... "good" not "elite". If Nichushkin projects as elite (which many scouts say that he does) I would be choked if Feaster passed on a elite player all other things being equal.

But they're not equal, which is why there's a discussion around it in the first place. There is a huge cloud over this guy in the shape of Russian oil baron money.