Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

It's starting to look like there's a drop-off after the top 3 (Jones, MacKinnon and Drouin), and that the Flames will be drafting at 4, 5 or possibly 6

How is it looking like the Flames will draft 4th, 5th, or 6th? I must not be seeing what you're seeing.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

From everything I've seen and read now, it looks like Lindholm would be a better option at 4 for the Flames, though he probably wouldn't play in the NHL next season.

I think he would be, but I've been on the Lindholm train for a while now. And yes, he'd definitely spend another year in Sweden, which would be fine. It's impossible to find faceoff stats on these guys though because their leagues don't post them.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

How is it looking like the Flames will draft 4th, 5th, or 6th? I must not be seeing what you're seeing.

Because Colorado and Florida are pretty bad and yet Carolina is so bad right now that they might finish last overall.

[handgroen]

here's an interesting question, how low would the pic have to be to make trading the pitt and stl picks worth it?
with the standings the way they are now it would be 20th (stl) and 29th (pitt)
the best pick i could reasonably see traded would be edmonton @ 9th
and i think that 9th - 14th could be had

for me it's the players left on the board.
i think you move heaven and earth to get lindholm or monahan if they're there at 9 or 10 and like-wise for Mantha if he's there at 13or 14th. otherwise keep the picks and try to get erne/ristolianen/gauthier at 20 and rychel/mueller/zykov/petan at 29th

[bubbsy]

question for those who know about these prospects.

If we draft outside the top 3, would it be reasonable to skip on barkov/lindhom and grab monahan instead? Or is the reward to risk factor just too much bigger for barkov/lindhom?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

question for those who know about these prospects.

If we draft outside the top 3, would it be reasonable to skip on barkov/lindhom and grab monahan instead? Or is the reward to risk factor just too much bigger for barkov/lindhom?

Lindholm/Monahan Monahan/Lindholm seems interchangable for a lot of people. I think the risk is the same with either. Monahan is a bit bigger and played in the CHL, so he has that going for him. On the other hand, Lindholm once intercepted a comet that was heading for Malmo, put a saddle on it and rode it into the Sun, saving millions of lives ... so there's that.

[handgroen]

The ISS rankings have us taking
(3)mackinnon
(20)gauthier
(29)petan

...drool

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by handgroen

here's an interesting question, how low would the pic have to be to make trading the pitt and stl picks worth it?
with the standings the way they are now it would be 20th (stl) and 29th (pitt)
the best pick i could reasonably see traded would be edmonton @ 9th
and i think that 9th - 14th could be had

for me it's the players left on the board.
i think you move heaven and earth to get lindholm or monahan if they're there at 9 or 10 and like-wise for Mantha if he's there at 13or 14th. otherwise keep the picks and try to get erne/ristolianen/gauthier at 20 and rychel/mueller/zykov/petan at 29th

To move up you need to find a team that isn't big on someone in that area - so they are motivated to move down. In a draft with a fair amount of quality in the 9-15 area - I think that is going to be tough to fine. Chances are all teams will have a long list of guys they like in their area.

I think we need to temper our expectations that the Flames are going to be able to move up at all.

[Niemo]

I would easily package 20th + 29th for 9th.
I doubt it'd be enough though. At the worst case scenario (and most likely) that Lindholm and Monahan are gone, I would take the russian.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Niemo

I would easily package 20th + 29th for 9th.
I doubt it'd be enough though. At the worst case scenario (and most likely) that Lindholm and Monahan are gone, I would take the russian.

Moving up to 14th required 21st and 42nd last year


So I guess IF a team wanted to move their first round pick down, ~20th and ~30th could probably get you to #10 or #11 to grab a guy like Max Domi or Alexander Wennberg. Maybe even Nichushkin falls that far. Another guy I see slipping and still being on the board at 10/11 is Shinkaruk

I see it going like:

1. Col - Jones
2. Fla - Mackinnon
3. CGY - Drouin
4. Car - Lindholm
5. Tampa - Nurse
6. NSH - Monahan
7. BUF - Ristolainen
8. Phi - ????
9. EDM - ????
10. CLB - ????
11. NJ -????


Columbus and NJ are definitely the teams to target if you want to trade up. Columbus could end up with 4 late first rounders if they trade down, while New Jersey might want multiple firsts this year to make up for forfetting their next year's first rounder. The players available at those spots are going to be guys like Domi, Wennberg, Zadorov (Oilers should grab him), Nichushkin, Mantha, Pulock, etc. So if the Flames have a guy they love I think they should go after it for sure

[PlayfulGenius]

^^^ you missed Barkov

[neo45]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

^^^ you missed Barkov

Ahhh I did. I see him going anywhere from 5-9, slide potential with him like there was with Couturier

[Yoho]

I think Carolina is going to get a top three pick.

How about Tampa, they have all their veteran stars and they are still plummeting

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

To move up you need to find a team that isn't big on someone in that area - so they are motivated to move down. In a draft with a fair amount of quality in the 9-15 area - I think that is going to be tough to fine. Chances are all teams will have a long list of guys they like in their area.

I think we need to temper our expectations that the Flames are going to be able to move up at all.

I also think people need to temper their expectations of where that Blues pick is going to be. Right now it is looking to migrate from 20 to 24 or worse if they can translate this into playoff hockey and make it to the conference finals.

The Blues have a game or two in hand over all of the teams directly above them in the standings and with the way they have been playing since the trade deadline they could easily leapfrog over some, if not all, of the 4 teams above them.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Niemo

I would easily package 20th + 29th for 9th.
I doubt it'd be enough though. At the worst case scenario (and most likely) that Lindholm and Monahan are gone, I would take the russian.

That's the other thing

who takes nichuskin? i see him dropping at least to 8th

with todays standings

1. Colorado
2. Florida
3. Calgary
4. Carolina
5. Tampa
6. Philly
7. Buffalo
8. Nashville
9. Edmonton
10. New Jersey
11. Columbus
12. Dallas
13. Pheonix
14. Winnepeg

I don't see him being picked till 8th with the players in front of him
somewhere in that 8 to 12 range. The thing that really scares me about this is i could see edmonton grabbing him and him being very good for them.

[Niemo]

So if New Jersey is forfeiting their pick this year, our 2nd and 3rd first rounders move up a spot!

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by nik-

I agree with a lot of the comments on Barkov, but that's only because what I've seen of him, which is limited. All the highlight packages you can find of him are horrible. His skating seems fine but maybe he's more of a winger to a playmaker in the NHL?

I dunno, he has an obvious nose for the net, but when I watch him, I'm left with a "where is it?" feeling. I wish I could see more of his play.

He's a playmaking centre. He scored a bunch of goals because he can put the puck in close to the net and his size allows him to go there, but he is definitely a playmaker type. Like I said before, goal highlights hardly do him justice especially since some of the clips on those packages are from when he was 16.

Also definitely not a winger. He plays a very strong game as a centre. It shows just how limited YouTube clips are when people say that he looks like Olli Jokinen or a winger. All Barkov's major strengths are Jokinen's weaknesses: intelligence, puck management, playmaking, two-way play.

If you're looking for a highlight reel guy, undoubtedly there are many players who are more impressive. What you have in Barkov is a strong, solid centre who also happens to have breaken all the scoring records for players his age in the league. I have no idea how he compares with other prospects though.

As for Ville Nieminen being a top-10 scorer, a good deal of that is because he played with Barkov. I don't know how he projects in the future, but he carries his line like a veteran centre. He's not a typical kid with skills who gets some nice goals here and there. He plays in every situation and he creates offensive opportunities more than finishes them - if you watch a YouTube reel, it looks like he's just a big guy who somehow gets the puck and scores, but that gives a false impression of what his game is like.

I don't advocate that the Flames draft him, particularly, but I think it's important to have a proper idea of what type of player he is. The scouts and experts are mostly correct. YouTube impressions can be misleading.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Niemo

So if New Jersey is forfeiting their pick this year, our 2nd and 3rd first rounders move up a spot!

They're not going to forfeit this year (surprised that they didn't last year... I can think of reasons why they didn't but really... the 29th pick and they didn't avail themselves of the opportunity?). They're locked in for next year now.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I don't advocate that the Flames draft him, particularly, but I think it's important to have a proper idea of what type of player he is. The scouts and experts are mostly correct. YouTube impressions can be misleading.

If the flames pick say second (Jones is off the board) who would you select henry?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

He's a playmaking centre. He scored a bunch of goals because he can put the puck in close to the net and his size allows him to go there, but he is definitely a playmaker type. Like I said before, goal highlights hardly do him justice especially since some of the clips on those packages are from when he was 16.

Also definitely not a winger. He plays a very strong game as a centre. It shows just how limited YouTube clips are when people say that he looks like Olli Jokinen or a winger. All Barkov's major strengths are Jokinen's weaknesses: intelligence, puck management, playmaking, two-way play.

If you're looking for a highlight reel guy, undoubtedly there are many players who are more impressive. What you have in Barkov is a strong, solid centre who also happens to have breaken all the scoring records for players his age in the league. I have no idea how he compares with other prospects though.

As for Ville Nieminen being a top-10 scorer, a good deal of that is because he played with Barkov. I don't know how he projects in the future, but he carries his line like a veteran centre. He's not a typical kid with skills who gets some nice goals here and there. He plays in every situation and he creates offensive opportunities more than finishes them - if you watch a YouTube reel, it looks like he's just a big guy who somehow gets the puck and scores, but that gives a false impression of what his game is like.

I don't advocate that the Flames draft him, particularly, but I think it's important to have a proper idea of what type of player he is. The scouts and experts are mostly correct. YouTube impressions can be misleading.

Thanks for this. The highlights for him do suck, so it really is hard to see his game.

[Phaneufenstein]

Originally Posted by Parallex

They're not going to forfeit this year (surprised that they didn't last year... I can think of reasons why they didn't but really... the 29th pick and they didn't avail themselves of the opportunity?). They're locked in for next year now.

Must have been pretty high on Matteau who already played 17 NHL games