How much stock can we put into the fact that Drouin elevated his game at the World Juniors?
I just went through a bunch of YouTube highlights and the only thing that stood out for me was that Barkov looked slow in comparison to the other top prospects. I think I would take Monahan before him.
Lindholm looks impressive.
I no longer have any clue who to draft... but I guess I'm hoping for Drouin.
June 30th is going to be like Christmas Day.
I think you take Jones if he's available, if not you take Mackinnon, if not you take Drouin (And it's frankly a tossup between drouin and Mackinnon).
After that it's sort of a tossup, there's a number of guys that could go at #4
Lindholm isn't really off the board at 3rd overall, IMO. I would not be shocked to see him picked in the top 3-4. Any 18 year old that has already proven he can play with men is going to be very tempting for any GM. Barkov is another guy in that category.
I just went through a bunch of YouTube highlights and the only thing that stood out for me was that Barkov looked slow in comparison to the other top prospects. I think I would take Monahan before him.
I remember thinking the same thing watching Anze Kopitar footage before he was drafted. Now I'm bullish on Barkov.
If Lindholm is your guy you trade down to get him. Still praying the Calgary trades up(from the st. louis pick), this would be the year to make a big splash in the top 6-8 picks.
The fact is if they don't draft the guy TSN says they should or is next on Button's list people will be mad...even though none of us have spent any time scouting
That's not really fair. McKenzie's list(which is TSNs ranking) is comprised of all the lists given to McKenzie by NHL scouts and then averaged. It's a solid indication of where they're ranked, and why there's usually not a huge deviation(save for a "reach" or "drop" that happens 2 or 3 times a round).
Management really hasn't given the fans anything to feel confident about. Until they prove that they are competent, they should expect this type of fan reaction.
If there is one thing that this management group has done well, I think it is the draft. While it is still far too early to say much of anything definitive, Feaster's picks from the past two draft practically all appear ahead of the curve in their development. I personally feel more confident about the 2011–12 Flames draft picks than almost any other prospects from the past seven or eight years.
The only real "off the board" pick was Jankowski last year. He was selected in the mid-first round, and in a somewhat weak draft-year. The circumstances were substantially different last year than this year, and it is beyond paranoid to wring one's hands about something that has not happened yet, especially in a field where the current management group has shown strength.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
If there is one thing that this management group has done well, I think it is the draft. While it is still far too early to say much of anything definitive, Feaster's picks from the past two draft practically all appear ahead of the curve in their development. I personally feel more confident about the 2011–12 Flames draft picks than almost any other prospects from the past seven or eight years.
The only real "off the board" pick was Jankowski last year. He was selected in the mid-first round, and in a somewhat weak draft-year. The circumstances were substantially different last year than this year, and it is beyond paranoid to wring one's hands about something that has not happened yet, especially in a field where the current management group has shown strength.
This. I'm not a big fan of Feaster but he and everyone in the organization knows how important this draft is for the Flames. There is no way they are going off the board with how high they will be drafting. The talent crop this year looks a lot better than last year and i'm sure the flames will nab a player wherever they draft.
That's not really fair. McKenzie's list(which is TSNs ranking) is comprised of all the lists given to McKenzie by NHL scouts and then averaged. It's a solid indication of where they're ranked, and why there's usually not a huge deviation(save for a "reach" or "drop" that happens 2 or 3 times a round).
real scouts (employed by NHL teams) don't give their lists to TSN or anyone else...I just think too much is made of these rankings. Someone picks a player not ranked highly by TSN and its "wow, what were they thinking! so and so was available" when really it takes years to see if it was smart or not.
People are already saying things like "oh can you imagine if they draft this guy instead of that guy" when chances are they have never seen either of them live
Anyone know offhand how strong the 2014 draft class is projected to be?
I can't help but think it may be in the Flames' interests to try to acquire another top 10 pick this year in exchange for next year's 1st rounder or a swap of first round picks in 2014. As bad as the Flames may be next year, if the 2013 class really is that good, it may be to the Flames' benefit to (essentially) move their 2014 pick up a year and end up with a prospect one year closer to making an impact.
Anyone know offhand how strong the 2014 draft class is projected to be?
I can't help but think it may be in the Flames' interests to try to acquire another top 10 pick this year in exchange for next year's 1st rounder or a swap of first round picks in 2014. As bad as the Flames may be next year, if the 2013 class really is that good, it may be to the Flames' benefit to (essentially) move their 2014 pick up a year and end up with a prospect one year closer to making an impact.
I don't know about that. The Flames first-rounder from next year may not command the kind of return to make it worthwhile, considering that no-one at this point can project where that pick will fall. There is a strong possibility that it could be another top-3–5 pick, and if so, then I also believe that it is probably better to use it to select a player, rather than to trade. If the Flames draft in the top-three again next year, chances are high that that player will be at least as good as any in the top-5–10 from this year. The Flames are not going to get anything else in the top-five this year.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
The top two: Sam Reinhart and Aaron Ekblad are both pretty highly regarded from what I can gather. Ekblad was the second player granted "exceptional" status by the CHL after Tavares, and Reinhart outranks him in many of the mock-drafts out there so he must be pretty special.
A 2014 1st rounder would probably be pretty highly valued. When the Canucks did their wheeling and dealing to get the Sedins they traded their 2000 1st and Bryan McCabe to get #4 overall.
In order to get another top-5 pick now we're probably looking at something like our second 2013 1st rounder, a 2014 1st rounder and, like, Glencross. Let's say that gets us #5, then we flip that + ... Gaudreau? for #3.
I highly doubt we're able to get another pick in the top five, but if we were I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to cost us two 1st round picks, a quality roster player and a quality prospect in total, worth it? Probably not.
Still, if it meant getting both MacKinnon and Drouin ... I can't help but fantasize.
The 2014 draft's top 5, which is likely where we'll be picking again, has as good of talent as the 13' draft. Between Ho-Sang, Reinhart, and Ekblad, there are several options that are very similar to McKinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm. I'm not sure if the 1st round is as deep as this one is, but the 15th overall pick doesn't really matter to us does it, unless we get other 14' 1sts.
That 1st should not be traded under any circumstance as it'll be as important as our 1st this year.
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That 1st should not be traded under any circumstance as it'll be as important as our 1st this year.
He's talking about trading our next years first round pick in order to acquire a second top five pick in this years draft.
I don't think it will be possible, but if it was, why wouldn't you?
1. If the quality of the top five in 2013 is similar to the top five in 2014 then we'd end up with the same quality of prospect one year earlier.
2. If this happened at the draft, and we ended up with #3 like the poster speculated, that would be guaranteed, where as next years pick wouldn't be guaranteed top 5. Likely top five, yes.....guaranteed, no.
Anyways, not likely to happen, but I would trade that 2014 pick if it meant leaving the 2013 draft with MacKinnon AND Drouin, instead of keeping the pick, leaving with only MacKinnon, and then waiting another year to see where the chips fell.
He's talking about trading our next years first round pick in order to acquire a second top five pick in this years draft.
I don't think it will be possible, but if it was, why wouldn't you?
1. If the quality of the top five in 2013 is similar to the top five in 2014 then we'd end up with the same quality of prospect one year earlier.
2. If this happened at the draft, and we ended up with #3 like the poster speculated, that would be guaranteed, where as next years pick wouldn't be guaranteed top 5. Likely top five, yes.....guaranteed, no.
Anyways, not likely to happen, but I would trade that 2014 pick if it meant leaving the 2013 draft with MacKinnon AND Drouin, instead of keeping the pick, leaving with only MacKinnon, and then waiting another year to see where the chips fell.
If you received a pick in the top 5 in a 1 for 1 deal, then sure, but the opposing GM would and should be fired for that. It's not like it'd be a guaranteed Crosby type player coming back in 2014. so I'm not sure what the incentive would be to put the pick off for a year.
The more likely scenario would be that we would have to move one of our firsts this year + 1st next year and maybe a roster player or two to move into the top 5.
Considering the Flames are starting in the first year of at least a 4 year rebuild to do it properly, it doesn't make sense to waste assets. Moving up in the draft does waste assets, especially when you're moving from around #20 up to the top 5. If anything, it might make more sense to trade down slightly to get more picks depending what's on the board at the time of our 2nd pick.
The most important thing is to be patient and not to rush things. Otherwise mistakes are more likely to occur.
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Just watched the CHL Top Prospects game that I PVR'd a few months back. A few notes
Man are there some big top prospects available
- On D: Jones 6'3, Nurse 6'3, Zadorov 6'5, (Ristolainen wasn't in the game but 6'3), Morin 6'7
- Up front: Mantha 6'4, Gauthier 6'5,
- Jones: rushes the puck, joins the rush, no hesitation to jump in offensively, great mobility
- Nurse: meaner than Jones, great mobility, not as offensive minded as Jones, looks like he'll be very strong when he fills out (already strong and has room to add weight)
- Zadorov: looks for big hits, great size/strength, skating didn't seem too bad
- Morin: got beat to the outside once or twice, absolute mammoth out there, did jump into the offensive zone a few times, weakest skating of the 4 d
- Mantha: really good speed for his size, has scored a ton in the Q this year but wasn't overwhelming in this game
- Gauthier: also a good skater for his size
It'd be nice to add some size with at least one of our first rounders this draft.
Tried to watch for Monahan but he didn't really stand out too much. Other players that showed some glimpes that I liked were Dickinson, Erne and Horvat.
As for MacKinnon vs Drouin vs Jones. In this game I liked MacKinnon the best despite getting no points.
- MacKinnon: Tremendous acceleration, excellent puckhandler, protects the puck well in the offensive zone with his body and wide skating stance, can shoot a very hard wrister (reminded me a bit of Sakic) or set guys up, looked a lot stronger on the puck than Drouin, good core strength
- Drouin: not his best game that I've seen. he did show excellent speed though. didn't protect the puck as well as MacKinnon and wasn't beating defenders like you've seen on the youtube clips.
- Jones: didn't hesitate to jump into the play. If there's a knock on him its that maybe you'd like to see him crush guys a bit more often. Tremendous size/strength/skating combo. I'd drop him a slight notch in the rankings just based on the fact that as an American he may decide he wants to play in the US later in his career and not stay as a franchise player for the Flames.
Given how close the top few prospects are I think you can start to bring in tiebreaking factors like position and nationality.
My top 3 from this game
1. MacKinnon - I give the edge to him based on his breakaway skating ability, the fact he plays centre and is Canadian. Would love it if we landed him
2. Jones
3. Drouin
Haven't seen enough of Barkov and Lindholm and Nichuskin to slot them in. I did see why Craig Button has Nurse so high on his list, he shows a lot of potential to be a big, physical #2 defensemen with some puck skills. I'm not going to be thrilled if we draft undersized guys like Domi or Petan based on what I saw in this limited action. I'm kind of hoping one of Ristolainen/Zadorov/Mantha/Gauthier might end up with us, always love size
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There's a more natural look at him(not all highlights). The kid is just all over the ice. He finishes checks, has great vision, is erratic but dominant along the boards, and brings the puck out in transition effortlessly.
Apparently his 57 hits in the SEL were the most of any junior player in the league by a wide margin(next highest was 40).
I'm forming a man crush here!
If we happen to fail at failing and end up picking 5th or 6th I think we'd be mega lucky. This guy looks awesome. Definitely reminds me of Forsberg and it's a huge bonus that he's a right-handed shot.
Not sure what it is but I have been reading the Blues forums to see how Bouw has been and they are all over Berglund. You would think he is Matt Stajan 2011-12 bad with the way they talk about him.
I'm actually not sure I would want to part with a first for him in a deep draft like this one. Hasn't taken that next step yet, and actually seems to have regressed in some cases.
Berglund has been benched, scratched and spent a lot of time on the 4th line this year. Not that I think he could be had for cheap, but he could certainly be had for the right price. If we hadn't been fixated on getting a first rounder back in the Bouwmeester trade we may have been able to pick him up at the deadline. That being said, I'm glad we got the first.
That's the thing, if we end up with say the #1 or #2 overall pick, all of Jones, McKinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Lindholm are going to be good players, all with flashes of potential stardom. Each of them look like 70+ point forwards. Depending on what the return(s) might be, trading down would not necessarily be a terrible thing (only down to 5 at the very worst)
I wouldn't trade down for a 3rd, but if one of those teams threw a second in to move down a spot or two, I'd seriously consider it. Especially as there are about 40 or so 1stish round prospects this year.
but I guess I'm hoping for Drouin.
