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Old 04-03-2013, 12:31 PM   #461
cDnStealth
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This thread, right here, is the reason I mostly stick to the Off Topic Forum. God help us for next year.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #462
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The personal insults to long suffering in regards to this pic is much more disgusting than any comment towards Kipper in this thread.
He's hurled enough personal insults to people in the past, that I think he can take a little rubbing.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #463
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He didn't refuse a trade.

The only rational conclusion you can make in this instance is that Kipper is pondering retirement at the end of the season and any team that has any interest in him isn't willing to part with assets for a 36 year-old under-performing goalie with a $5 million cap hit (knowing full well he still has the capability to be elite, and, probably with the shelf life of goaltenders, should be for a few years to come) without a contract extension and full commitment going forward.
Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 2h
According to Sportsnet and TSN, G Miikka Kiprusoff has told #Flames he won't move. Basically, a self-made no-trade clause.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2h
Leafs spoke with Kiprusoff yesterday, had constant contact with agent and Feaster. Ultimately, Kipper's decision to stay put was made today.

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 2h
Its my understanding Miikka Kiprusoff will not accept a deal anywhere. He just does not want to move. #TRADETRACKER

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch 3h
No suprise Miikka Kiprusoff staying in Calgary, @RealKyper said that last week. #TRADETRACKER

If Kipper would have been open to a trade it would have happened.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #464
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I think the Spazzyflame username is still available.
That's nice.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #465
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And with that, I'm done with this thread.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #466
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Whoever closed the other thread I just made seemed to have missed the point of starting a differant thread. This thread has degraded to a point of personal insults, assumptions and character assassination. The other thread was to be a general discussion of Rumors and Social Media, This Kipper situation being the most recent.

I think a lot of people, myself included ere quick to blame Kipper for a Rumor that got out of control, and has zero proof that it originated from him or his "camp"
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:35 PM   #467
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Thanks Wronskian, what did you guys even think this tread was about???
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:35 PM   #468
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Where? I haven't seen anything to confirm this other than speculation.



Maybe they're after more than 1 year? That's still requiring an assumption to squeeze a fact support a hypothesis.



He and his agent's requirements about what? Deciding not to retire? Well of course, if he's offered an extension, he can decide if he wants to take it or not. Nothing wrong with that. And a trading partner has to decide if they want to make a trade with or without an assurance of an extension.



Him explaining himself is with respect to if he wants to sign an extension or not, and the only way a team can find out if he's willing to sign an extension is by talking to him.
Pretty sure all we disagree on is whether he told Feaster to be asked about a deal first or not. If that's the case there's nothing I can do to prove to you that I'm right and you're wrong and you can't prove it vice versa, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The evidence and "experts" word is enough evidence for me to lead me to that theory. Nuff said.

[Edit]And to add to my argument I'll steal from Wronskian:
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Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 2h
According to Sportsnet and TSN, G Miikka Kiprusoff has told #Flames he won't move. Basically, a self-made no-trade clause.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2h
Leafs spoke with Kiprusoff yesterday, had constant contact with agent and Feaster. Ultimately, Kipper's decision to stay put was made today.

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 2h
Its my understanding Miikka Kiprusoff will not accept a deal anywhere. He just does not want to move. #TRADETRACKER

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch 3h
No suprise Miikka Kiprusoff staying in Calgary, @RealKyper said that last week. #TRADETRACKER

Last edited by RT14; 04-03-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:36 PM   #469
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Not allegedly. He is paid to do his job, and as a member of the organisation holds certain community obligations, and as far as we have known he has fulfilled all of them. What does he owe the fans at this point? and why?
Conversely, the fans (and ownership and management) don't owe Kipper anything either. We should no more care about what Kipper did for the team in the past than Kipper cares about what the team did for him in the past.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:36 PM   #470
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Right. It's all on me.

In this thread we have a handful of people stating that in their opinion, Miikka's adopting a position that is not in the best interests of the team and, according to credible reports, is effectively imposing a NMC that he does not hold.

On the other side, we have a hysterical mob who froth at the mouth over any slight, real or imagined, against Miikka, who by the way, deserves sainthood and the Nobel prize for his selfless contributions to the the Flames success(?) since 2004.
With such a biased comparison interlaced with hyperbole you certainly aren't helping matters.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #471
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I say let Kipper play the last remaining games as a Flame and let him retire. Whats the point in bringing in a goalie like Bishop or Mason ( I know they just got traded, but its just an example) when they are only going to play just 14 games total. It's a waste of time.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:39 PM   #472
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That's nice.
sven27 might still be available! hehe
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:41 PM   #473
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What a collection of melo-dramatic teenage girls we have here.

Aside from a magical Stanley Cup run, all Miikka, Jarome et al have led the Flames into was mediocrity.

Please stop romantically referring to them as heroes. You dishonour real heroes.
I didn't write them a poem, or stand outside their windows with a ghetto blaster, so I'm not sure I'm romantically referring to them as heroes.

Why can't I refer to them as heroes? To me they are, and that is justified by my personal values. You can have your heroes and I can have mine. I am not dishonouring anyone else by putting Jarome and Miikka on proverbial pedestals.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:41 PM   #474
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The personal insults to long suffering in regards to this pic is much more disgusting than any comment towards Kipper in this thread.
but posting an insulting pic to depict kipper fans is ok?
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #475
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I hope some on here realise some of the comments made on both sides of this argument are completely ridiculous. It is possible for someone to disagree about a hockey move without being part of a "lunatic fringe," and it's possible for someone to be fine with a hockey move without being hero worshippers.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Wronskian View Post
Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 2h
According to Sportsnet and TSN, G Miikka Kiprusoff has told #Flames he won't move. Basically, a self-made no-trade clause.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2h
Leafs spoke with Kiprusoff yesterday, had constant contact with agent and Feaster. Ultimately, Kipper's decision to stay put was made today.

Roger Millions ‏@RogMillions 2h
Its my understanding Miikka Kiprusoff will not accept a deal anywhere. He just does not want to move. #TRADETRACKER

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch 3h
No suprise Miikka Kiprusoff staying in Calgary, @RealKyper said that last week. #TRADETRACKER

If Kipper would have been open to a trade it would have happened.
This is all media speculation and conjecture. It is clear to me, from everything I have heard, that he hasn't been too keen on being traded. However, I don't think it's an outright refusal for overwhelmingly selfish reasons.

He's not sure about his future, and given his performance this season he is contemplating his value going forward...despite what teams may be willing to offer him in terms of future dollars.

I can agree that if he had been more receptive to a trade, and more certain about his future, a trade likely would have happened a couple days ago. Right now, neither Kipper or any possible destination is willing to bank on his uncertainty.

I just can't fault the guy for wanting to contemplate retirement and not having made a decision yet. It would have been just as devious to keep this all a secret and screw another franchise (and Calgary's rep).
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:45 PM   #477
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Pretty sure all we disagree on is whether he told Feaster to be asked about a deal first or not. If that's the case there's nothing I can do to prove to you that I'm right and you're wrong and you can't prove it vice versa, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The evidence and "experts" word is enough evidence for me to lead me to that theory. Nuff said.

[Edit]And to add to my argument I'll steal from Wronskian:

So we still haven't learned anything after the Iginla/Boston fiasco?
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #478
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Pretty sure all we disagree on is whether he told Feaster to be asked about a deal first or not. If that's the case there's nothing I can do to prove to you that I'm right and you're wrong and you can't prove it vice versa, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
We can't agree to disagree because I'm not making an assumption about an event and drawing a conclusion on it. I don't have a chosen position because I don't have the required information, so I can't disagree with your conclusion, I think the conclusion is invalid not incorrect.

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The evidence and "experts" word is enough evidence for me to lead me to that theory. Nuff said.

[Edit]And to add to my argument I'll steal from Wronskian:
A bunch of guys on twitter circulating the same thing around in a big circle does not mean it's true. Maybe they all have the same source who is wrong. Maybe they just re-report what they've read from the other guys in the circle. We've seen that lots in the recent past where the "experts" have been wrong in the end.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #479
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I only went through the first 8 or so pages. These people above, and I'm sure there are plenty after, are disgusting. You have no concept of home-life and taking care of a family. You call yourselves Flames fans? Serious? You can't respect what Miikka has done for the Flames and the fact he wants to RETIRE as a Flame?

If he thinks he can't honor an extension and play up the level that would be expected of him, then good on him for being HONEST. Honest with himself, ownership, GMs and the fans. There aren't too many players like that these days.

I'm at a loss for words, but I'm sure others will agree with me. You're only upset because a trade didn't happen. Try to look at the big picture. Try to look at what has been accomplished and given by this great goaltender.

Go cheer for another team. No one wants your negativity around here.

Good for Kipper. Retire a Flames. I love it!
Really? Disgusting? Having a different opinion to you makes someone disgusting? Having an expectation of someone completing the complete terms of a contract they signed, knowing all conditions of said contract, is disgusting? I guess I am a horrible person.

Listen, you don't know me and I don't know you. I won't judge you because I don't know your circumstances. I ask you to do the same with me and with others. Is that fair? We are doing nothing but discussing a hockey related issue. Leave it at that. Save your pontificating about what a superior fan or person you are compared to others to other threads. Discuss the issue on its merits and what we know.

What we do know is that Kipper signed a contract with specific constraints and he knew those constraints going in. He knew the risk of being traded in the final two years of the contract. That was part of the risk with the contract and why he was paid so well during that contract. Making the threat to retire is not living by the deal brokered, which is disappointing to me. I would hope that a player I have supported and held in very high regard over the years would have a little more character and honor the terms of the contract he signed. I did not say anything derogatory about Kipper or wish ill on him, I just stated that I was disappointed he would not complete his contract as outlined.

If this were a player from the Oilers or Canucks pulling this, I suspect people would have a different opinion. Imagine if Luongo did this? What would the reaction be? Probably more than disappointment? I think there would be some, probably yourself, questioning his character and wondering why he would not complete the full terms of his contract. Why should this situation be any different? It is a business issue, nothing more. Nothing for you to start insulting people and telling them to go cheer for another team. As disappointed as I am in Kiprusoff I'm a little more disappointed in this reaction.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:48 PM   #480
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Really? Disgusting? Having a different opinion to you makes someone disgusting? Having an expectation of someone completing the complete terms of a contract they signed, knowing all conditions of said contract, is disgusting? I guess I am a horrible person.

Listen, you don't know me and I don't know you. I won't judge you because I don't know your circumstances. I ask you to do the same with me and with others. Is that fair? We are doing nothing but discussing a hockey related issue. Leave it at that. Save your pontificating about what a superior fan or person you are compared to others to other threads. Discuss the issue on its merits and what we know.

What we do know is that Kipper signed a contract with specific constraints and he knew those constraints going in. He knew the risk of being traded in the final two years of the contract. That was part of the risk with the contract and why he was paid so well during that contract. Making the threat to retire is not living by the deal brokered, which is disappointing to me. I would hope that a player I have supported and held in very high regard over the years would have a little more character and honor the terms of the contract he signed. I did not say anything derogatory about Kipper or wish ill on him, I just stated that I was disappointed he would not complete his contract as outlined.

If this were a player from the Oilers or Canucks pulling this, I suspect people would have a different opinion. Imagine if Luongo did this? What would the reaction be? Probably more than disappointment? I think there would be some, probably yourself, questioning his character and wondering why he would not complete the full terms of his contract. Why should this situation be any different? It is a business issue, nothing more. Nothing for you to start insulting people and telling them to go cheer for another team. As disappointed as I am in Kiprusoff I'm a little more disappointed in this reaction.

Right...and that contract included a constraint that allows him to retire at any time he feels like it.
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