Did we all get trolled? Like some sort of late April Fools day joke?
Ahhh, I was totally fooled. No sane parent could possibly THAT stupid and purposely choose to put their kid at risk of disease or death for such silliness.
I wonder if the law will eventually allow for parents of unvaccinated children to be charged with a crime if their child spreads an easily preventable disease to a child who is too young or otherwise medically unable to be vaccinated.
Maybe not murder (although that is what it looks like), but child endangerment, or abuse.
I would imagine that in the US this might go through in a civil lawsuit. (Proving it would be really hard though.)
Personally I think some of the parents who's kids have died of preventable diseases because they didn't get them vaccinated should be sentenced for criminally negligent manslaughter (or something equivalent). Just to drive the point through.
Everybody is entitled to their beliefs, as long as those beliefs don't kill people.
I'm glad that people are taking such a strong stand on this. Problems like vaccination scares and other anti-intellectual tinfoilery can only be fought by talking about it.
I mean yes, I understand the OP in the sense that vaccinations are frankly somewhat incomprehensible and at the end of the day, yes, we need to trust doctors and pharmaseutical companies on this.
However, a society does not work and it does not develop if people stop trusting the knowledge it has gathered.
Trusting talk-show talking heads is not a real option, it's just replacing a set of actual experts with self-proclaimed ones.
(Also, those talking heads are just as much in the discussion for the profit as the pharmaseutical industry.)
Parents should have the right to decide if they want their kids to be vaccinated. Period.
I don't disagree. But they should also have a tattoo across their forehead stating they aren't vacinated. THey should also be fully home schooled with no access to public venues.
The piling on a guy and absolute bullying him, I think, has been quite unnecessary. You will neither change the mans mind nor help him. You just alienate him.
I'd like to see how many posters here said they were against internet bullying.
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The piling on a guy and absolute bullying him, I think, has been quite unnecessary. You will neither change the mans mind nor help him. You just alienate him.
I'd like to see how many posters here said they were against internet bullying.
If he doesn't change his mind from this, he won't change his mind period. At least with the arguments presented, he can walk away aware of the truth- whether he wants to ignore it or not. Sometimes, you have to be told how stupid your belief is before realizing how stupid your belief is.
Honestly, not vaccinating your child really puts others at risk. This is a serious topic. Dealing with it softly does not convey it's importance adequately.
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The piling on a guy and absolute bullying him, I think, has been quite unnecessary. You will neither change the mans mind nor help him. You just alienate him.
I'd like to see how many posters here said they were against internet bullying.
I'm a pretty weird dude now.
I can't imagine how weird I would be if bullies in elementary/junior high hadn't beaten sense into me.
The piling on a guy and absolute bullying him, I think, has been quite unnecessary. You will neither change the mans mind nor help him. You just alienate him.
I'd like to see how many posters here said they were against internet bullying.
bull****. It's not bullying, it's giving a harsh dose of reality to a decision he's making. He put his opinion and choice out there, and is receiving critisism. And how do you know this will neither change his mind nor help him? If I held a beleif, started a thread stating my beleif, and then nearly 100% of responders were adamantly opposing my choice, and stating over and over again that I was putting my child at risk, I would likely re-evaluate my belief. But that's just me.
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If he doesn't change his mind from this, he won't change his mind period. At least with the arguments presented, he can walk away aware of the truth- whether he wants to ignore it or not. Sometimes, you have to be told how stupid your belief is before realizing how stupid your belief is.
Honestly, not vaccinating your child really puts others at risk. This is a serious topic. Dealing with it softly does not convey it's importance adequately.
I tried this at the Mormon Temple tour. Didn't take.
If he doesn't change his mind from this, he won't change his mind period. At least with the arguments presented, he can walk away aware of the truth- whether he wants to ignore it or not. Sometimes, you have to be told how stupid your belief is before realizing how stupid your belief is.
Honestly, not vaccinating your child really puts others at risk. This is a serious topic. Dealing with it softly does not convey it's importance adequately.
So deal with it seriously. Don't pick a fight with him! That's just as ignorant and childish. To defend that behavior is just as bad. To be a better person and apologize then discuss critically and rationally would have been the better approach.
If each poster here made the attempt to positively change his mind you would have made a better position for him to revisit his choice. To assume that he wouldn't is just using a poor defense.
I tried this at the Mormon Temple tour. Didn't take.
What Mormons believe ARE beliefs. They may seem a tad ridiculous to you or me, but they have their beliefs, and so be it.
This thread is a whole different ball of wax. There are no beliefs in this thread. There are facts, and there is wanton ignorance.
__________________
"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable." - Carl Sagan Freedom consonant with responsibility.
So deal with it seriously. Don't pick a fight with him! That's just as ignorant and childish. To defend that behavior is just as bad. To be a better person and apologize then discuss critically and rationally would have been the better approach.
If each poster here made the attempt to positively change his mind you would have made a better position for him to revisit his choice. To assume that he wouldn't is just using a poor defense.
Who's picking a fight with him? All I see is very harsh (rightfully so) critisism of his choice. This isn't elementary school, no one needs to sugar coat their words or tip toe around the issue. It's a terrible decision, that will put his child and other children at risk, and should be addressed as such.
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I'm torn about this, obviously non-vaccinated children pose an unnecessary risk to the rest of the class, but if a kid comes from a home where the parents "don't trust vaccines", I think that kid needs education more than most.
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Just to clarify...My son did have SOME of his shots. I didn't think we were up to date, which is why I posted the question. Then my wife did a search for the immunization card to see exactly what shots we were missing, only to find out he is indeed up to date. So, everyone can simmer for now. I am not going to allow my only son to infect all of your children so they all die. I hate reading stories like that!
I understand that many people think it would be insane for a parent to not immunize their child. 100% get it. That's called an opinion. This forum is a scary place for anyone who has one of those that goes against the popular consensus. That's sad, but cool too. Shortly after my son had his last round (18m) of shots, we decided to look more into the subject. And nothing at all to do with the Autism debate either like some here just assumed. It was just a personal choice and I do not regret it at all. I don't believe the illuminati is out to kill his generation through tricky vaccines either. I simply believe that the idea of vaccines being relevant/needed today needs to be explored.
Again...thank you for the replies and PMs. I love debates like this, even if people resort to personal attacks and wrongful assumptions. That's the known risk when posting here, or any forum.
Side note....When my wife and I started talking about this today, I told her I could post this here, and have tons of responses right away. After the first 7, I bet her that there would be 100 replies before 5pm. She said "no way". Thanks for the win!
Final clarifications added after I posted this...
I don't feel bullied or picked in this thread. Appreciate the responses, even if they don't agree. I knew what I was getting into. I am not Mormon. Not religious at all. No a Creationalist (sic?) either, and I freaking love science too. I think that covers all the misconceptions here.
Last edited by JonDuke; 04-02-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Who's picking a fight with him? All I see is very harsh (rightfully so) critisism of his choice. This isn't elementary school, no one needs to sugar coat their words or tip toe around the issue. It's a terrible decision, that will put his child and other children at risk, and should be addressed as such.
Nice defense. This isn't "elementary school."
Here is a great respectful post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang
What in particular do you not trust about vaccines? The autism link has long been discredited.
Ultimately the decision is up to you, but I would strongly encourage you to do further research from credible sources. My mother-in-law send my wife and I an email after the birth of our son, and it was full of misinformation, conspiracy theories, and pseudo-science references. This can be quite alarming to new parents, but it is more important now than it ever has been to analyze the information and make an informed decision.
If you stick to credible sources, you'll soon realize that the risk of autism is simply non existent, there is no conspiracy by doctors, scientists, the Illuminati, (insert conspiracy theory of the day here), etc., and there is a very good reason why people live longer than ever before: because preventable diseases are being prevented.
Spoiler!
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
Good to see we're wasting millions of dollars in order to assuage the fears of morons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
I have a theory, you and your wife are foolish people who are willfully endangering your children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
Sure and if you chose not to you can home school your little preventable disease factory and not endanger the children of people who aren't idiots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesla
These threads make me face-palm so hard i get finger impressions on my forehead.
It is like my buddy who called me "Stupid" for having my kid vaccinated. I have realized you can't fight stupid... you just face-palm and move on.
Unfortunately, this is one of those times where "stupid" causes deaths.
Unlike the young Earth creationists (and other people of this ilk), this stupidity literally kills people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krynski
Go ahead, don't vaccinate your kid. The world is already too populated. Darwinism at it's finest!
edit: I guess I should say- Darwinism is a set of theories, so it doesn't apply to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
Get your damn kid vaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evman150
I don't trust red lights. If I stop at them I might get autism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
JonDuke effigy burning party this weekend! .PM me for details - it'll be BYOG (bring your own gasoline), but puppets will be provided!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemgear
Ahhh, I was totally fooled. No sane parent could possibly THAT stupid and purposely choose to put their kid at risk of disease or death for such silliness.
My wife and I are filling out the application for our son to go to pre-school.
One of the questions is "Is the child's immunizations up to date"
We circle no.
They then ask "If no, please indicate reason"
I don't want to turn this into a tinfoil hat thread at all, but I simply do not trust vaccines. If I say that, can they deny admission for our son?
OR is there a PC answer that I should be using?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDuke
Just to clarify...My son did have SOME of his shots. I didn't think we were up to date, which is why I posted the question.Then my wife did a search for the immunization card to see exactly what shots we were missing, only to find out he is indeed up to date.So, everyone can simmer for now. I am not going to allow my only son to infect all of your children so they all die. I hate reading stories like that!
I understand that many people think it would be insane for a parent to not immunize their child. 100% get it. That's called an opinion. This forum is a scary place for anyone who has one of those that goes against the popular consensus. That's sad, but cool too. Shortly after my son had his last round (18m) of shots, we decided to look more into the subject. And nothing at all to do with the Autism debate either like some here just assumed. It was just a personal choice and I do not regret it at all. I don't believe the illuminati is out to kill his generation through tricky vaccines either. I simply believe that the idea of vaccines being relevant/needed today needs to be explored.
Colour me a little confused by your OP compared to your latest post. In your OP you clearly stated that it was your distrust of vaccines that led to your decision, and that's what prompted the appropriate replies. Then in your latest post it seems you started off by downplaying your opinon and therefore implying that everyone was wrong to make a assumptions about you, even stating that your son has all his immunizations up to date.
But then, you go on to explain how "it was a just a personal choice", and that you "simply believe that the idea of vaccines being relevant/needed today needs t be explored". So are you saying that your son has all his vaccines, but you have now reached a decision to not give him anymore? Or are you saying that you will continue to immunize him, but you feel the pros and cons of vaccines is worth debating? I'm just not quite sure what's going on.
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