[Trade] Bouwmeester to Blues for conditional 2013 1st, Cundari and goaltender Reto Berra

[MrMastodonFarm]

Oh my Lord.... Why do we always have to do this state of the stuff. Bouwmeester is gone, we're moving on, changing things up. Two of our highest played players gone in less then a week.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by bucksmasher

I'll disagree with you on the intelligence rationale. To get into law school requires a degree in political science, psychology, sociology or some other "soft" science. Critical thinking and scientific method are not ingrained in these degrees nor is hockey business. Lawyers are trained to read and understand the technical terms of law, much like someone learns a new language. I'm pretty sure the 2% in this province are tucked away in the science and engineering departments of the U of A or U of C when they're not busy running CP.

to be a lawyer you need to have a memory like elephant and a knack for obsessively picking up obscure details in walls of text (to understand whether a player has to pass waivers, for instance)

intelligence, not so much

not to mention it has zero to do with hockey trades

[Mr.Coffee]

My thoughts:

I think the trade is "ok" or "average", and this is based on me having absolutely zero insight into whatever these prospects are or could be. I only go by the typical big name kids you routinely hear (and I'm sure hear for a reason), but it would be both highly ignorant and unfair to start criticizing. So to be fair, let's assume these players are busts;

In the assumption these guys are busts, the trade could have been better I think. You have to love the first obviously, it's terrific and the true value in the deal. But the Flames and the weaker team takes on all the risk in a deal like this. They are the ones with the uncertain future while a proven top 2 defender carries on. To compensate, CGY needs as high upside as possible, and I'm just not sure pick number 15-25 is even equal value let alone providing the upside on a player that could help make a deep playoff push. I only speak this way about Bouwmeester here based on his 'paper value' if you know what I mean... and which leads me to my next point:

Now the good part about the trade, in my eyes, is that the true value is the removal of this player from the team. Sometimes you hear about players that are proven winners. Bouwmeester is a proven loser, and contributed to the culture of losing that plagues the Flames. He seems content with losing, lacking in desire or mental fortitude, apathetic towards any kind of physical play, and uninterested. Maybe there's a reason why teams that hope that Jay Bouwmeester, as a mainstay anchor on the point and that try to build around him while he logs half of the bloody game, are in all attempts unable to qualify for the postseason. Maybe those intangibles of a player are more important than skill?

And that lets me wrap this up somewhat offtopic as I always do...! Fact of the matter is that, and it's been stated already several times, this team had to rebuild, and finally grew the balls to do it. I am enjoying the departure of big name players as the team admits it's plan wasn't working. The Flames were desperate for a little strategic humility and these big trades prove they are adapting in spades. These firsts, these prospects, sure it could all collapse, the Flames could suck with them. But we knew that they were going to suck if the trades weren't made. That for me was logic enough to start the exodus, and we might as well be getting firsts in the process.

So on the all... not bad. I feel it could have been better, but without knowing circumstances and the intricacies of the deal and how it played out, it's almost impossible to assess a trade properly as an outsider. Lastly, the other part that makes me semi nervous, is that they are freeing up cap space. Why? Not because of the freeing up cap space which is obviously great. But because of what they may do in the summer with all that cap space..... and I just see constant overpayments in new contracts and little value. Which is sort of what got us in trouble in the first place. Well, that and complacency, which at least the Flames look determined to end as a culture on this team.

[keenan87]

Has there been any reaction or sight of Bouwmeester yet??

Kind of odd that no one has heard from him

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Has there been any reaction or sight of Bouwmeester yet??

Kind of odd that no one has heard from him

He's probably smiling all the way to Saint Loo right about now.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by dammage79

He's probably smiling all the way to Saint Loo right about now.

or darting his eyes around awkwardly

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by dammage79

He's probably smiling

Doubt it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by handgroen

or darting his eyes around awkwardly

Asking if various things are made out of... wood...

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Has there been any reaction or sight of Bouwmeester yet??

Kind of odd that no one has heard from him

Thank god we haven't heard from him. He's got to be the most quiet and awkward player in the NHL.

[anyonebutedmonton]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Not to be mean but that's not how intelligence works or how education works or how a corporate hierarchy works. Jay feaster is a smart and competent guy but he is not above criticism because of his lsat score.

Not above criticism, but above the level of criticism thrown around here early on in the thread. I'm saying the guy is not a total dud, thus he did not simply put his head in the sand and take whatever deal happened to be there when he pulled it out.

It is just far more likely that this was the value that was available considering the constraining factors such as NMC and an extra year at 6.8M.

Criticize the players we received back all you would like, but this is a decent return, all things considered.

My logic is this: Feaster got into a very good school --> He must be a very intelligent person --> It is unlikely that he simply chose an obviously inferior deal

It just seems hilarious how strongly worded some of the posts have been about how he didn't get the value he should have. As if some keyboard warrior who has never worked in the industry could reasonably believe that they have such superior knowledge of the situation that a man of proven intelligence simply made a completely out to lunch decision

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by etdpratt

ok, I stand corrected with Brodie, but given 5 or 6 years as GM, two decent players don't cut it.

To judge a GM's ability at drafting, you have to see what moves he made within the organization to become better at drafting.

For instance, when Sutter took over as GM of the Flames, I believe there was 1 full-time scout and 2 part time scouts. No development program to speak of. Well, the drafting was atrocious.

Over the years, Sutter convinced the owners to invest more money in this area, and as time wore on, the drafting did improve, without question. Was it 'great'? Nope, but it was headed in the right direction.

I have absolutely no idea what was going on in Tampa's drafting and development department when Feaster was there. Was he making moves (or at least pushing that ownership group) to better the scouting? How many scouts were around? What was their experience? Etc.

I think too much negativity and too much positivity is shown for GMs with regards to drafting. I think one has to look at the scouting departments, and what happens within them.

I think Columbus will be an interesting case over the years. Their new GM is apparently a big 'scouting' guy, as is the President. One would expect much more money funneled into the drafting and development programs there.

I really wish we could hire someone like Jankowski (NYI old head scout) as he found a lot of diamonds in the rough, and whose team is on the smaller side due to budget constraints there.

Feaster sees the importance of drafting, so to me he is a 'positive' drafting GM, regardless of track record. He took over that aspect from Sutter, and managed to even grow it further.

Both of them were considered 'horrible drafting guys', but you have to look at the whole circumstance surrounding it, as well as take into consideration the number of years they were present, in order to really qualify "bad" or "good" when looking at a GM's drafting 'ability'.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by 868904

Feaster has won 1 trade for sure, McGratton for Piskula!!

Wow, who is this power forward?!??!

Haha...it actually was a good trade....

and his very proud about it

[automaton 3]

Sure it would have been nice to have a prospect that we're more familiar with included, but all in all this a decent trade.

The 1st should be mid-round, and losing that albatross of a salary going into a summer where several teams are going to have to shed salary should pay dividends.

If the prospects work out, all the better.

[VladtheImpaler]

I have already said that I unflichingly believe this team is run by buffoons and my biggest hope for this season is to see King, Feaster et al walk the plank... However, given that for the last couple of seasons I firmly believed that a "Bouwmeester for a bag of pucks" trade would have been a great deal for the Flames, I cannot complain about getting a ~20th pick in a real good draft without having to take on some stupid contract. Should we have done better? Could we have received more? Maybe, but, given my thoughts on Bouwmeester, I have to be happy with this return.
As far as the "prospects" go, I would rather have a 2nd and a 3rd than the four bodies we picked up so far, since they all seem to project as quality... AHL players. But we shall see - maybe if you throw enough crap at the wall, you can find a Bozak or a Giordano among the four.
So, in conclusion, fire King, fire Feaster, but I like another 1st and I like that soulless loser being gone.

[Rhettzky]

I'm happy we got a first. Three down 27 to go!

Also, kind of embarrassed by some of the posts here. Not saying that differing opinions are bad but the way they are presented in some cases is pretty ridiculous.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I have already said that I unflichingly believe this team is run by buffoons and my biggest hope for this season is to see King, Feaster et al walk the plank... However, given that for the last couple of seasons I firmly believed that a "Bouwmeester for a bag of pucks" trade would have been a great deal for the Flames, I cannot complain about getting a ~20th pick in a real good draft without having to take on some stupid contract. Should we have done better? Could we have received more? Maybe, but, given my thoughts on Bouwmeester, I have to be happy with this return.
As far as the "prospects" go, I would rather have a 2nd and a 3rd than the four bodies we picked up so far, since they all seem to project as quality... AHL players. But we shall see - maybe if you throw enough crap at the wall, you can find a Bozak or a Giordano among the four.
So, in conclusion, fire King, fire Feaster, but I like another 1st and I like that soulless loser being gone.

I can see the Blues sneaking into the playoffs and getting pounded in the first round...15th pick

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I have already said that I unflichingly believe this team is run by buffoons and my biggest hope for this season is to see King, Feaster et al walk the plank... However, given that for the last couple of seasons I firmly believed that a "Bouwmeester for a bag of pucks" trade would have been a great deal for the Flames, I cannot complain about getting a ~20th pick in a real good draft without having to take on some stupid contract. Should we have done better? Could we have received more? Maybe, but, given my thoughts on Bouwmeester, I have to be happy with this return.
As far as the "prospects" go, I would rather have a 2nd and a 3rd than the four bodies we picked up so far, since they all seem to project as quality... AHL players. But we shall see - maybe if you throw enough crap at the wall, you can find a Bozak or a Giordano among the four.
So, in conclusion, fire King, fire Feaster, but I like another 1st and I like that soulless loser being gone.

This perfectly encapsulates my feelings. With Bouwmeester gone I really feel the team got harder to play against. Bouwmeester is a long track sped skater, NOT a hockey player

[mister__big]

Originally Posted by anyonebutedmonton

I am about to offend some of you...

Jay Feaster attended a top-14 law school in the US. This means that he is likely in the top 2% of the population when it comes to intelligence. It is a fact that he is significantly smarter than the VAST majority on this message board. To think that he somehow made a mistake and simply did not understand the market, a market that he has spent his career in, is a very unreasonable position to take here.

You're equating intelligence with hockey trades? In that case we should hire the President of MENSA as our next GM, surely as the smartest guy he's the best choice!

Making a good trade requires much more than just intelligence. It requires common sense, street smarts with a dash of cunningness and mind games. I know plenty of highly intelligent people who can't bargain with a street vendor to save their lives. Does this mean the street vendor is smarter or went to a better school? No, it just means they understood the situation better and knew how to read their buyer.

It's like in hold'em, it all comes down to reading your opponents and knowing when to call their bluff. With Feaster, it seems to me that his fellow GMs are reading him very well and Feaster's the guy who's routinely laying down AKs because he's scared of raises from his opponent holding KQs.

St. Louis is a team that's on the bubble and can easily miss out on the playoffs. So why isn't Feaster squeezing a desperate David Poile by the balls and extorting him for more? Instead Feaster agrees to let STL defer the pick to 2014 if the Blues miss the playoffs?? Why is the person dealing from a position of strength giving up concessions like this? It makes zero sense and only shows Feaster as a terrible negotiator with a massively overrated law degree. Don't forget this is the same lawyer who didn't get Iginla to write down his 4 teams on paper.

[djsFlames]

You guys won't be complaining come draft day.

The Flames have never had a pick higher than 6th. Also never had 2 picks in the first round, let alone 3. And there's a decent chance that we could see a 4th come our way in the next 36 hours. We're going to be spoiled-rotten kids on draft day. People get their panties in a bunch when picks in trade returns don't yet have names attached to them and we're focusing on the prospects. I get that part of it is the hope for instant gratification, but that's the thing about a rebuild. It's not going to be like the Sutter days where we'd swoop in and pick up some attractive name that everybody knows. It's going to be like this for a bit. Teams aren't going to line up to dish off their #1 prospect for a 30 year old while eating a massive contract. We need to work on not blowing our tops right off the bat and let the results of the trades speak for themselves first, and yes it's going to take a little time.

My bet is we'll have the last laugh on one or two of these big deadline trades (including those yet to come) It may be 5 years down the road. But a day will come when we'll be chuckling and enjoying elite level hockey night after night in our rink.

[dino7c]

Which one of you is the guy on overtime right now

"Jaybo is terrible I called it from day one"

minutes earlier

"should have gotten more"

lol which one is it

Dave, calling you out on this one...clown