[News] Toronto and another team granted permission to talk to Kipper

[Jbo]

Mother of god...not the leafs...anybody but the leafs. Kipper you are my favorite player and I don't think I can take you joining that stupid team of suck.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Glad to see this myth still persisting. Is it not obvious that the team is terrible and no amount of coaching was going to save it. Infact Sutter probably had a worse roster to deal with last season than Hartley.

Sutter also got a better Kiprusoff.

Save percentage adjusted goal differential (i.e. [goals scored - shots against x (1 - NHL average SV%)] / game)

2009-2010 -0.12
2010-2011 +0.46
2011-2012 -0.22
(Average for B Sutter: +0.04)
2012-2013 +0.26

This is what our goal differential per game would be with NHL average goaltending. Positive losely means playoffs, negative indicates missed playoffs.

Over the past four years, we've had good team metrics (reflecting good coaching) or good goaltending metrics in four out four years, just never both at the same time.

[Brannigans Law]

Truly the end of an era. Hopefully bou isn't far behind and this team can begin healing

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Mother of god...not the leafs...anybody but the leafs. Kipper you are my favorite player and I don't think I can take you joining that stupid team of suck.

While I do have a "just not worth it" ... I would feel a lot better sending Kiprusoff off for a 5th to Pittsburg, would be (ya ya ya, romantic) story to see him and Iginla get a cup together. But I won't be watching that... too painful... but would be awesome for them.

[flamesfan55]

Originally Posted by Sample00

our friend, Roger Millions figures that Chicago is inquiring as well.
would think that a goalie is coming back in that deal too. would hope for crawford but am guessing emery.

I doubt that, emery has been on fire this year. They have a pretty solid 1-2 in net.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sutter also got a better Kiprusoff.

Save percentage adjusted goal differential (i.e. [goals scored - shots against x (1 - NHL average SV%)] / game)

2009-2010 -0.12
2010-2011 +0.46
2011-2012 -0.22
(Average for B Sutter: +0.04)
2012-2013 +0.26

This is what our goal differential per game would be with NHL average goaltending. Positive losely means playoffs, negative indicates missed playoffs.

Over the past four years, we've had good team metrics (reflecting good coaching) or good goaltending metrics in four out four years, just never both at the same time.

So you're saying we've been poorly constructed for four years?

[afc wimbledon]

Seriously think half the posters here are sitting in a basement full of old milk cartoons and copies of hockey news from 1986 onwards, can you guys let go of anything?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by flamesfan55

I doubt that, emery has been on fire this year. They have a pretty solid 1-2 in net.

They're getting Miikka Kiprusoff back. They're not carrying three goalies. Ray Emery is expendable and we'd need someone to play out the stretch.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Muta

Agreed with this. If the package does not have a 'wow' factor, keep our franchise goalie where he is.

Why? His play is slipping and he is likely going to retire after this season. Even if he doesn't, there is no way he is still around by the time the Flames are good enough to have use for a franchise goalie. Use your heads people. It's time to move on.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Any team but Toronto, and watch Kipper rediscover his mojo, he can still carry a team that actually gives a damn and defends a little on his back to conference finals at least.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Seriously think half the posters here are sitting in a basement full of old milk cartoons and copies of hockey news from 1986 onwards, can you guys let go of anything?

Trust me, I wanted to see a rebuild more then most... it would have been awesome to see their legecy pass by getting blue chip prospects a year or two ago when they should have rebuilt... the gift that keeps on giving, so to speak. What sucks isn't that they're leaving, but what a sad state this organization has become the past 2 years because management/Feaster failed to be intellectually honest with themselves.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Why? His play is slipping and he is likely going to retire after this season. Even if he doesn't, there is no way he is still around by the time the Flames are good enough to have use for a franchise goalie. Use your heads people. It's time to move on.

It's not about a nostalgic factor. At all. It's about taking advantage of the seller's market, since not many sellers are available.

Feaster wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't squeezing out every drop of value in trading assets like this.

Or do you condone just passing him off for the sake of change? If you are, I'm glad you're not GM. You have to change intelligently, not just change in general.

[PeteLFan]

Hate to say it but it looks like kipper has quit on us this year.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It sort of is; a 3rd round pick sucks, but if that's all they can get for him, they have to do it. A 3rd round pick buys 5.8M in cap space. Not doing that deal is irresponsible. Which is right up Feaster's alley, but whatever.

I don't think cap space is nearly as valuable to this team right now as it has been the last few years. I don't see the Flames spending up to the cap next year.

"Not doing that deal is irresponsible"... no, that is an opinion.

I know Kiprusoff has been bad this season, but he was good last year. I don't buy that he is over the hill suddenly. Goalies historically seem to have some longevity. The Flames have been a thorough mess this season, not just Kiprusoff. It is reasonable to expect that next season Kiprusoff could rebound.

The Flames will still need a goalie next season, and Ramo is far from a safe bet. This kind of reminds me of the Flames center situation right now... "well if Cervenka turns out, Backlund takes a step forward, and Tanguay adjusts to C, we'll be fine" ... well only one of those things really happen. If the Flames put all of their hopes on Ramo, they will most likely be disappointed. I'd much rather the Flames go into next season with Kiprusoff and Ramo, rather than Ramo and a mid-low 3rd round pick.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Hate to say it but it looks like kipper has quit on us this year.

Kipper is not the type.

He has been the best player for years when no one else showed up.

We don't know his personal situation, but maybe he is distracted this year with his new born.

Saying he quit on this team is poor form.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

It's not about a nostalgic factor. At all. It's about taking advantage of the seller's market, since not many sellers are available.

Feaster wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't squeezing out every drop of value in trading assets like this.

Or do you condone just passing him off for the sake of change? If you are, I'm glad you're not GM. You have to change intelligently, not just change in general.

There are not many buyers for a goalie. Plus Kipper is pretty much being treated as if he has a NMC.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Fortunately, you have a built in excuse. If a trade happens and we inevitably get less than you think is warranted, you can simply blame Feaster rather than accept your expectations were not realistic.

This should be pinned at the top of this forum.

[Dienasty]

Curious what thoughts are on this:
Kipper- Komisarek+1st rounder

Cap space saved (5.8-4.5=1.3M) the Leafs now have the extra cap space thus paying a 1st rather then a second to get Kipper considering Komi is sitting buried in the minors

As a Flames perspective you get a better draft pick by taking salary back, and we add an overpaid 5th D man that the Flames could use. He is still better then Butler, Babchuk, Smith, and Sarich, plus he would add a little toughness to a team sorely lacking it. Not to mention the Flames have tons of cap space open, so his salary won't hurt us and it would expire before any of our prospects need to be re-upped (Baertschi, or any of our 3-1st rounders this season).

The Flames would play him 15 minutes a game, and he would be on our pk.

I think this would be a fairly good move for both sides.

PS I believe he was an A in Toronto and Montreal so he could provide some leadership too.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jake

I don't think cap space is nearly as valuable to this team right now as it has been the last few years. I don't see the Flames spending up to the cap next year.

"Not doing that deal is irresponsible"... no, that is an opinion.

I know Kiprusoff has been bad this season, but he was good last year. I don't buy that he is over the hill suddenly. Goalies historically seem to have some longevity. The Flames have been a thorough mess this season, not just Kiprusoff. It is reasonable to expect that next season Kiprusoff could rebound.

The Flames will still need a goalie next season, and Ramo is far from a safe bet. This kind of reminds me of the Flames center situation right now... "well if Cervenka turns out, Backlund takes a step forward, and Tanguay adjusts to C, we'll be fine" ... well only one of those things really happen. If the Flames put all of their hopes on Ramo, they will most likely be disappointed. I'd much rather the Flames go into next season with Kiprusoff and Ramo, rather than Ramo and a mid-low 3rd round pick.

They're definitely not a cap team, and nor should they be. But as someone a few pages back mentioned, trading Kipper and Bouw leaves us with 34 million in committed salaries next year. We could offer Tyler Bozak and Derek Roy 5 years 25 million each, and our center position would be as good as it's been since the Flyer game after we acquired Jokinen for the first time.

We have no idea how valuable cap space truly is, as since its come into existence, we've never had it.

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Curious what thoughts are on this:
Kipper- Komisarek+1st rounder

Cap space saved (5.8-4.5=1.3M) the Leafs now have the extra cap space thus paying a 1st rather then a second to get Kipper considering Komi is sitting buried in the minors

As a Flames perspective you get a better draft pick by taking salary back, and we add an overpaid 5th D man that the Flames could use. He is still better then Butler, Babchuk, Smith, and Sarich, plus he would add a little toughness to a team sorely lacking it. Not to mention the Flames have tons of cap space open, so his salary won't hurt us and it would expire before any of our prospects need to be re-upped (Baertschi, or any of our 3-1st rounders this season).

The Flames would play him 15 minutes a game, and he would be on our pk.

I think this would be a fairly good move for both sides.

PS I believe he was an A in Toronto and Montreal so he could provide some leadership too.

No.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by really?

Understand the logic and loyalty, but do you honestly think Kipper wants to be a part of this? He's leaving one way or another.

Not 100% confirmed whatsoever.