sorry for all the text but found this very interesting from tsn about iggys trade value and previous values for rentals.
Quote:
While there have been rumblings that the Flames' asking price is too much, it doesn't seem out of line with prices paid for rental players at previous trade deadlines. Some examples (including names of notable draft picks) from www.nhltradetracker.com, since 2006:
2011 - Toronto acquired C Joe Colborne, a 2011 first-round pick (Rickard Rakell) and a conditional second-round pick in 2012 from Boston for D Tomas Kaberle.
2010 - Atlanta acquired RW Niclas Bergfors, C Patrice Cormier, D Johnny Oduya, a first-round pick (Kevin Hayes) and second-round pick from New Jersey for LW Ilya Kovalchuk, D Anssi Salmela and a second-round pick (Jonathon Merrill).
2009 - Phoenix acquired C Matthew Lombardi, LW Brandon Prust and a first-round pick (Brandon Gormley) from Calgary for C Olli Jokinen and a third-round pick.
2008 - Columbus acquired conditional first (Luca Sbisa) and fourth-round (David Savard) picks from Colorado for D Adam Foote.
2008 - Buffalo acquired RW Steve Bernier and a first-round pick (Tyler Ennis) from San Jose for D Brian Campbell and a seventh-round pick.
2008 - Atlanta acquired RW Colby Armstrong, C Erik Christensen, C Angelo Esposito and a first-round pick from Pittsburgh for RW Marian Hossa and LW Pascal Dupuis.
2007 - Edmonton acquired LW Robert Nilsson, C Ryan O'Marra and a first-round pick from the N.Y. Islanders for LW Ryan Smyth.
2007 - Florida acquired C Shawn Matthias and conditional second-round picks in 2007 (Nick Spaling) and 2008 from Detroit for RW Todd Bertuzzi.
2007 - St. Louis acquired RW Ville Nieminen, RW Jay Barriball and a first-round pick (LW David Perron) from San Jose for RW Bill Guerin.
2007 - St. Louis acquired C Glen Metropolit, first (Mikael Backlund) and third-round picks in 2007 as well as a second-round pick in 2008 and a conditional first-round pick in 2008 from Atlanta for LW Keith Tkachuk.
2007 - Philadelphia acquired D Ryan Parent, RW Scottie Upshall, a first-round (Jonathon Blum) and third-round pick from Nashville for C Peter Forsberg.
2006 - Boston acquired C Marty Reasoner, C Yan Stastny and a second-round pick (LW Milan Lucic) from Edmonton for LW Sergei Samsonov.
2006 - Pittsburgh acquired C Krys Kolanos, LW Niklas Nordgren and a second-round pick from Carolina for RW Mark Recchi.
2006 - St. Louis acquired RW Jesse Boulerice, C Mike Zigomanis, LW Magnus Kahnberg, a first-round pick and fourth-round pick in 2006 and fourth-round pick in 2007) from Carolina for C Doug Weight and LW Erkki Rajamaki.
This doesnt look very promising. I might just not have enough knowledge of some of these players but the best prospects in these example include: joe colburne, colby armstrong, ryan o'marra, scottie upshall. none of these players look like the replacing franchise guy. The draft pick seems more important in this scenario but even that usually ends up being a crap shoot.
what is the scenario to give up iggy and glencross for a guy like seguin. isnt that the kind of player we are hoping to draw out of this iggy trade.
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This doesnt look very promising. I might just not have enough knowledge of some of these players but the best prospects in these example include: joe colburne, colby armstrong, ryan o'marra, scottie upshall. none of these players look like the replacing franchise guy. The draft pick seems more important in this scenario but even that usually ends up being a crap shoot.
what is the scenario to give up iggy and glencross for a guy like seguin. isnt that the kind of player we are hoping to draw out of this iggy trade.
There is no way to give up older players at the end of their usefull life (or any players generally) to get a younger franchise player, the only way you get a franchise player is to take on risk as part of the deal, risk is either a draft pick, a lesser known prospect or a franchise player with a downside, history of injury or personal problems.
This doesnt look very promising. I might just not have enough knowledge of some of these players but the best prospects in these example include: joe colburne, colby armstrong, ryan o'marra, scottie upshall. none of these players look like the replacing franchise guy. The draft pick seems more important in this scenario but even that usually ends up being a crap shoot.
what is the scenario to give up iggy and glencross for a guy like seguin. isnt that the kind of player we are hoping to draw out of this iggy trade.
Posters and fans need to realise that the flames are not going to get a player like Seguin out of a trade involving Iggy.
Why? So your terrible team can finish 9th instead of 12th?
First things first... make sure your team can compete with average goaltending, then cap it off with a franchise goalie. Timing is everything when building (or rebuilding) a team.
A big problem with the Flames the past few seasons is that having Kiprusoff bail them out every night did not help them develop urgency or confidence without a Kipper safety net (see every time the Flames used a back-up). Kiprusoff single handedly raised our place in the standings enough to always keep us in win-now mode, but the team as a whole sucked too much to get over the hump. In the big picture, was this what was best for the team? I personally don't think so.
I hate to say it, but the Leafs are doing it right. If they can teeter on success with 2 backups, that team will be all the much better by the time they can land a franchise calibre goalie. There's always the risk that they won't land one, but such is life. No risk, no reward.
While I agree with this strategy in principles, the problem is:
A) The Flames still aren't willing to undergo a full rebuild. They want a fast turnaround.
B) Landing that franchise (or even a very good) goaltender is easier said than done. How long have the Oilers, Leafs, and Avalanche been trying?
This doesnt look very promising. I might just not have enough knowledge of some of these players but the best prospects in these example include: joe colburne, colby armstrong, ryan o'marra, scottie upshall. none of these players look like the replacing franchise guy. The draft pick seems more important in this scenario but even that usually ends up being a crap shoot.
That's part of the nature of the deadline day rental trades though. Teams will shell out all sorts of picks and prospects of varying value but that are still ultimately "unknowns" for the sure thing they think will push them into Cup territory. Might seem like alot but much of the quality of what we actually get in return will depend on us and who we draft, how well we develop, etc.
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This doesnt look very promising. I might just not have enough knowledge of some of these players but the best prospects in these example include: joe colburne, colby armstrong, ryan o'marra, scottie upshall. none of these players look like the replacing franchise guy. The draft pick seems more important in this scenario but even that usually ends up being a crap shoot.
what is the scenario to give up iggy and glencross for a guy like seguin. isnt that the kind of player we are hoping to draw out of this iggy trade.
We're not asking too much
The other teams just want to fleece Feaster and they're telling anyone who will listen.
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Posters and fans need to realise that the flames are not going to get a player like Seguin out of a trade involving Iggy.
Nope. He's is a future superstar in this league and is currently the Bruin's 2nd leading goal scorer. It's not going to happen for a rental and any combination of tweeners we could muster.
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Kunitz works with Crosby because he's the physical two-way element that helps create loose pucks for crosby to jump on.
I've watched a lot of pens games this year and Kunitz is skating miles out there.
Is anyone suggesting taking Kunitz off the left side?
If that line gets shifted because of Iginla it would be Dupuis, who plays the right wing on that line... but doesn't play on the power play with Crosby.
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While I agree with this strategy in principles, the problem is:
A) The Flames still aren't willing to undergo a full rebuild. They want a fast turnaround.
B) Landing that franchise (or even a very good) goaltender is easier said than done. How long have the Oilers, Leafs, and Avalanche been trying?
It's very difficult, but imagine if the Oilers did land one a few seasons ago. They would likely still be missing the playoffs, and wouldn't even have Hall, Yakupov or RNH to show for it.
Having said that, it is quite possible that Bernier isn't going to be a franchise goalie, depending on how you define it. Like you said, it is difficult to get one and the 3 teams you mentioned all thought they had it at one point. We could trade Iginla for Bernier, and Bernier could be the next Varlamov (who was highly regarded when the Avs acquired him). A testment to the difficulty.
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It's very difficult, but imagine if the Oilers did land one a few seasons ago. They would likely still be missing the playoffs, and wouldn't even have Hall, Yakupov or RNH to show for it.
Having said that, it is quite possible that Bernier isn't going to be a franchise goalie, depending on how you define it. Like you said, it is difficult to get one and the 3 teams you mentioned all thought they had it at one point. We could trade Iginla for Bernier, and Bernier could be the next Varlamov (who was highly regarded when the Avs acquired him). A testment to the difficulty.
I thought Varlamov looked awful in his season in Washington and most thought the Avs were really overpaying for him with the puck.
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We could trade Iginla for Bernier, and Bernier could be the next Varlamov (who was highly regarded when the Avs acquired him). A testment to the difficulty.
He was?
When I saw that trade I thought Washington made out like Bandits on that one, and they did.
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