Feaster credibility with fan base on the line

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

Lets say hypothetically we draft Mackinnon. If you slot him between Cammalleri and Tanguay, he will be successful. You need to have a strong group to slot these high-end players into to buffer their development and give them opportunity to succeed. Scorched earth rebuilds don't offer that ability and the Oilers are finding it out the hard way.

Are they? They got through their 9 game road trip 1 game under .500, a record the Flames would love to have on a 3 game road trip these days and they are at home for 12 of their final 20 games. They are two points out of the playoffs with a game in hand on the 9th place team. The hard thing people are going to discover after this year is after three years of a scorched earth policy, the Oilers might actually make the playoffs this year. A win tomorrow night and the Edmonton Oilers could be in a playoff position.

[Wronskian]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Solid Pieces over the next 3-4 years:

Brodie - top 4 dman
Wideman - top 4 offensive dman, bottom two defensive dman
Bouwmeester - Top 2 dman
Giordano - 3/4 dman

Glencross - solid 3rd line forward, potential to play top six
Backlund - potential 2nd or 3rd line center
Stajan - 2nd or 3rd line center
Cammalleri - 2nd line player
Stempniak - solid 3rd liner, potential to play top 6
Hudler - 2nd line winger

Prospects who may make a difference in the next 3-4 years

Baertschi
Gaudreau
Horak


The Flames are only missing a goaltender, a top 2 dman, and an entire first line.

Agreed, I'd swap Tanguay with Stempniak though. Stempniak has real potential to bring us back a good draft pick back (ie. 2nd rounder plus) so I'd consider moving him.

As for Stajan, I know we are extremely thin at center ice, but despite playing well recently I just feel his body of work with the Flames just doesn't warrant an extension. I say draft an elite center at all costs (Mackinnon, Barkov, Monahan), sign a veteran center, then run with Backlund, (one of Bouma or Jones), (one of Mackinnon, Barkov or Monahan), and a UFA veteren.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Players to keep: Brodie, Baertschi, Backlund, Giordano, Stajan, Stempniak, Glencross, Hudler. The last 5 guys will be our "veterans" for a rebuilding team. Still leaves us with a decent top 6 forwards and top D pairing going forward. I wouldn't be upset with trading Wideman, but I recognize we aren't trading a guy we just signed to a long term deal, so throw him in that mix too.

Players to deal:
Jay Bouwmeester- the return for him at the moment would be really good and he has a palatable contract for this year and next for some team (*cough* Detroit *cough*) to make a deal for him.

Miikka Kiprusoff- under contract for next year as well, he could take a bubble team over the hump (Toronto, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Philadelphia). His actual dollars next year are an absolute steal. He's a proven playoff performer. This opens the door for Ramo, Taylor, Brossoit, etc. to get a shot on a rebuilding club.

Alex Tanguay- Puts up points and adds offensive skill to any club. He has a few years left on his contract, but it's only 3.5 mill. Is a veteran and could be helpful for a team short on skilled forwards (Ottawa-injuries/retiring Alfie, New Jersey, Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota).

Mike Cammalleri- Only one year left on his deal after this one, so somebody could bite on his big salary. He's been putting up good points again this year and has shown versatility in the lineup. He's a big PP guy so could be a good fit for a good team with a bad PP (Detroit, NYR, Minnesota, Boston?)

Blake Comeau- Could be an ok utility player for a team needing speed, PK ability, and checking for a small cap hit and playoff run.

Chris Butler- Not that I think he's terrible, but he isn't helping us win anytime soon. Trade him for whatever draft picks/prospects you can.

Derek Smith- See Chris Butler.

Anton Babchuk- You never know...we traded for him at one point.

Player I am on the fence about: Jarome Iginla. I only say this because in my heart I would like him to retire as a Flame. If they worked out a deal with Pittsburgh to have him as a rental for these playoffs and come back to a reduced contract in the off-season. I'd be ok with that. I just can't imagine this team without him while he's still an active player. His return might be diminished as well, so is it really worth it to trade him? Just not sure anymore. Think Alfredsson in Ottawa, and he isn't nearly as important to the city as Jarome is to Calgary. I guess we'll see what happens soon...

Players nobody will take: Sarich, Jackman, Begin, McGrattan, Cervenka.

Players to keep: Brodie, Baertschi, Backlund, Glencross, Hudler

There will be takers for Jackman, Cervenka and potentially Sarich.

[Wronskian]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Are they? They got through their 9 game road trip 1 game under .500, a record the Flames would love to have on a 3 game road trip these days and they are at home for 12 of their final 20 games. They are two points out of the playoffs with a game in hand on the 9th place team. The hard thing people are going to discover after this year is after three years of a scorched earth policy, the Oilers might actually make the playoffs this year. A win tomorrow night and the Edmonton Oilers could be in a playoff position.

While thats true, they have finished last (or 2nd last) three years in a row. Rebuilding/retooling properly shouldn't require being that bad three years in a row. I understand there is a strong element of luck involved and the Oilers have been unfortunate with injuries and weak goaltending the last three seasons. Additionally I'm not an uber oilers hater, just using them as an example, you could insert Columbus, Florida or NYI in that comment.

[Flash Walken]

No one is taking Cervenka.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Statements like this make me wanna pull my hair out. Tell you what, stop everything you're doing, go to NHL.com and take a look at the standings. Then come back here and argue your position that we aren't joining the Oilers in a race for the bottom.

My position is the flames are not going to mirror the oilers and deliberately race for the bottom.

You can pull as much hair out as you like, I think thats a fact.
The flames can finish dead last this year, and it will still be a fact.

They are not going to look north and say 'lets be like them'.

If thats what you are hoping for you might as well get over it now.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

No one is taking Cervenka.

I'd be surprised if any one takes Tanguay without Iginla, too. While he's got the skill in a vaccum, he just doesn't seem like the guy that's done well when he's out of his comfort zone, and its clear that's with Iginla.

[Savvy27]

I'm more optimistic that ownership and management will start trading veterans, including Iginla, for young players and draft picks because I have followed the same path as they did. The first two years out of the playoffs, I figured that injuries and some bad luck meant that they just needed a couple of pieces and a better performance from what they had. Last trade deadline I was basically where Feaster was at wanting to trade a whole bunch of underperformers until he mysteriously reversed the position (may very well have been ownership telling him that they wanted to give the players another shot, but could also have been that they were not being offered anything worth breaking the team up over). Now, this year I am resigned to the fact that the team simply is not good enough, it is not going to improve next season organically, and the cupboard is not superior to that of other teams that are currently better on the ice.

I think that the owners really like the players. They think that it is a group of good guys and they wanted to believe that they just needed to put it together and held out hope for it to happen for too long. They paid a premium in the summer to bring in some talent to help them out and it still wasn't enough.

I think they realize that now is the time to regroup because the current push is a failure. They have gone quiet because they have been having internal discussions on how to approach a rebuild from a marketing perspective and also because they do not want to do anything that would lower the value of their assets.

It's not going to be a fire sale because there is a cap floor, but I anticipate that this years playoffs will be interesting for Flames fans because we will be watching a few of our favorite players chasing the cup in different colors and the draft will be really interesting because the Flames will be picking very high and hopefully several times in the first round.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

My position is the flames are not going to mirror the oilers and deliberately race for the bottom.

You can pull as much hair out as you like, I think thats a fact.
The flames can finish dead last this year, and it will still be a fact.

They are not going to look north and say 'lets be like them'.

If thats what you are hoping for you might as well get over it now.

Deliberate or not, we are racing for the bottom. That is a fact.

Not once have I ever advocated an "Oilers" rebuild, however I have said numerous times that its time to move on from Iginla and trade other pieces of the team and look to the future. I do believe there can be such a thing as a smart rebuild, not everything needs to be scorched earth.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Deliberate or not, we are racing for the bottom. That is a fact.

Not once have I ever advocated an "Oilers" rebuild, however I have said numerous times that its time to move on from Iginla and trade other pieces of the team and look to the future. I do believe there can be such a thing as a smart rebuild, not everything needs to be scorched earth.

Doubt it, when the season is over I bet the Flames will be ~ 9th maybe 10th spot.

They will go on a winning streak like previous season and miss out by 2 maybe 4 points.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

While thats true, they have finished last (or 2nd last) three years in a row. Rebuilding/retooling properly shouldn't require being that bad three years in a row. I understand there is a strong element of luck involved and the Oilers have been unfortunate with injuries and weak goaltending the last three seasons. Additionally I'm not an uber oilers hater, just using them as an example, you could insert Columbus, Florida or NYI in that comment.

I would roll the dice on being really bad for 2 or 3 years. The problem with most of the teams that did not have success through a rebuild was that they were not bad enough. The teams that were really bad: Ottawa in the 90's, Colorado in the late 80's, Pittsburgh in the mid 2000's, Chicago in the mid 2000's actually had some success. There are a couple teams (Atlanta and NYI and to a lesser extent Columbus) that did not have success, but historically it has been a pretty decent model.

If I had my way they would trade most of their assets for prospects and picks on April 3rd. Over the summer they would go out and try to do a quick rebuild like Ottawa/Montreal through UFA. But I would not give out NMC's or NTC's because if the quick rebuild does not work I would do the same damn thing at the next trade deadline.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Are they? They got through their 9 game road trip 1 game under .500, a record the Flames would love to have on a 3 game road trip these days and they are at home for 12 of their final 20 games. They are two points out of the playoffs with a game in hand on the 9th place team. The hard thing people are going to discover after this year is after three years of a scorched earth policy, the Oilers might actually make the playoffs this year. A win tomorrow night and the Edmonton Oilers could be in a playoff position.

Edmonton has had a brutal 9-game road trip and has played 3 more away games than home games. Meanwhile, Calgary has played 3 more home games than away games.

The Oilers are already 2 points ahead of the Flames and have much more favorable schedule to end the season (especially considering our pitiful and well-deserved road record). It'd be a major surprise if the Flames finished ahead of the Oilers at this point when you actually break it down.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Are they? They got through their 9 game road trip 1 game under .500, a record the Flames would love to have on a 3 game road trip these days and they are at home for 12 of their final 20 games. They are two points out of the playoffs with a game in hand on the 9th place team. The hard thing people are going to discover after this year is after three years of a scorched earth policy, the Oilers might actually make the playoffs this year. A win tomorrow night and the Edmonton Oilers could be in a playoff position.

The Oilers have played one more game than the Flames and have 2 more points...if Calgary is "out of it" so are the Oilers

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Oilers have played one more game than the Flames and have 2 more points...if Calgary is "out of it" so are the Oilers

Oilers are probably out of it also, but what posters are saying is that their schedule going forward favours them over the flames.

[North East Goon]

The Oilers are showing a sign of life lately.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

I don't think it's Management's phobia, it's Ownership's. The current Management was brought in by the Ownership under the mantra to win now, which is what they have been trying to do. Ownership seems to be afraid to give the go ahead to rebuild, probably due to the experience they have from the last rebuild, and frankly the fan base has shown they will throw money towards a middling team. Until that changes I suspect the message from ownership will be to stay the course.

While I think ownership's mantra to win now influenced the decision to hire Jay Feaster as the team's GM, I'm not sure if it's the ownership standing in the way of a rebuild. Let's face it, Feaster has shown no inclination that he is the type of GM who has the patience to go through the growing pains that are necessary to a rebuild. Feaster's idea of a rebuild likely involves the team getting younger rather than maximizing the team's potential to compete years down the line.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Oilers are probably out of it also, but what posters are saying is that their schedule going forward favours them over the flames.

If the Flames and Oilers continue their current home and away winning percentages the season would end up like this

Oilers - 6-5-1 the rest of the way at home
Oilers - either 3-4-1 or 4-4 on the road (their road winning percentage would give them 7.5 points)

Oilers would finish the season with either 48 or 49 points.

Flames - 5-3-1 at home for 11 points
Flames - 3-7-2 on the road for 8 points

Flames end up with 44 points.

There could be some variance, but the smart money is on the Flames finishing at least a couple games below .500 and the Oilers finishing around .500. Neither team is smart money to make the playoffs, but the Oilers will likely finish higher than the Flames.

I would definitely think the Oilers have a better likelihood of squeezing out an additional 5-6 points with their home games than the Flames are of squeezing out an additional 10 points with their road heavy schedule.

[dino7c]

I am saying the Flames and Oilers are both out of it...hope they finish higher, the last thing I want is them hyping another top pick all summer

[DeluxeMoustache]

Firstly, I would agree with the folks who assess the situation realistically, noting that it takes two to make a trade. Last year there were no trades, and likely that is related to other teams not valuing the Flames assets as the Flames do.

Whether or not the team ends up selling assets, there is something that should be said for Feaster. Let's add to the asset management discussion the maximization of value of existing assets. Last year a lot of assets were at an all time low. Selling at that point would have been disastrous. Hartley is the guy he brought in, and I would say that several existing assets have increased in value based on the metrics a lot of people look at.

- Cammalleri at 22 points in 24 games. Nearly point per game hockey. Big improvement from the ~0.7 point per game pace he was at the past few years
- Bouwmeester on pace for his Florida numbers after 3 years of floundering offensively under Brent
- Stajan playing a confident well rounded game and on pace for 50+ points after the last 3 years nearly left him without value
- Stempniak on pace for a career high 63 points over 82

The above assets should be worth more this year than they were last year. That can be a pretty big deal.

Backlund has taken a significant step forward in his development (and very unfortunately this is offset by injuries), and so has Brodie, but this may well be a natural progression given their ages and stage of development.

[you got PHANUEFED]

Watching this team chase 500 all season long is like watching your dog chase there tail its only funny for so long the Flames magament has to pull the trigger and get assets for this strong draft.