Feaster credibility with fan base on the line

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I just don't understand managements apparent phobia of the so called rebuild.

I don't think it's Management's phobia, it's Ownership's. The current Management was brought in by the Ownership under the mantra to win now, which is what they have been trying to do. Ownership seems to be afraid to give the go ahead to rebuild, probably due to the experience they have from the last rebuild, and frankly the fan base has shown they will throw money towards a middling team. Until that changes I suspect the message from ownership will be to stay the course. (Although I could be way off base. I guess we will see in 2 weeks. If Iginla and others are traded then obviously ownership has finally given the OK to change the direction of this team.)

As for Feaster's credibility with the fan base, I'm sure the last thing Feaster is worried about is what a bunch of opinionated emotional fans think. His job is to, one way or another, find a way to put a winning hockey team on the ice. It doesn't matter how he goes about it, as long as the result is a winning team then the fans will be happy.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Southside

There is the rub. Feaster said he would be active last year and nothing. He said the organization had to be intellectually honest. He said he had been fooled twice. His words. So, he has already lost credibility with many. The next 2 weeks should be revealing.

Just curious, but you do know that just because a GM wants to be active doesn't mean they can be right? Every trade needs a partner and you don't want your GM selling off players for less than he values them do you? For all you know Feaster was working the phones for 16 hours a day, being active doesn't always end up with stuff happening.

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I highly doubt the flames are thinking about "compliance buyout" route. They have cap space and players like Cammi, JBO, Kipper , Gio, ect will have worth next year at the deadline if they kept them. The only player before the season started that i thought would be bought out was Stajan. No chance he is bought out now, he has been our best forward this season.

I don't think they will go the buyout route either, that's why I think someone will be traded so they don't go that route.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

I don't think it's Management's phobia, it's Ownership's.

Sorry I should have been more clear. I consider ownership to be a part of management on this team

[EddyBeers]

It will be an interesting trade deadline. For the last couple years most people in the hockey world thought the Flames should try to get something for their aging assets, but the Flames knew better. This year pretty much every single observer of the sport of hockey, including Pope Francis know that the Flames should try to get something for their aging assets. It will be interesting to see if the Flames hockey ops/owners are still the smartest people in the room and the only ones who can see the greatness in this roster.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flames better not just trade Stempniak for a 2nd and Sarich for a 5tj and recoup the picks we already traded away then stand pat. I want to collect assets, get a top 5 pick and rebuild this team through the draft and free agency. The most important currency moving into the summer is going to be picks, prospects, and cap space. The flames have none of that now but could be flush with it on April 4th if they do it right

"just" ?

I'd be happy if we were even able to recoup those pics that Feaster traded away. We have to stop this deficit spending if we're not a playoff team, let alone being at the bottom of the standings.

[Southside]

[QUOTE=Alberta_Beef;4140765]Just curious, but you do know that just because a GM wants to be active doesn't mean they can be right? Every trade needs a partner and you don't want your GM selling off players for less than he values them do you? For all you know Feaster was working the phones for 16 hours a day, being active doesn't always end up with stuff happening.

Being active on the phone is not what was intended. Who said we had to sell off for less than fair value? If Feaster can't find trading partners, then for certain it is time for him to move on.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

I don't think it's Management's phobia, it's Ownership's.

Can you blame them though? They had a an arena that was only 70% full during the last "young guns" era.

I would bet that if management came out and said to expect a 3-5 year rebuild, that it would affect current and potential seasons ticket holders. Sure, hardcore fans would accept it, but a lot of season's ticket holder aren't hardcore enough to spend all that money and not have a hope within that time frame. Until fans start showing that the status quo is hopeless, the owners have no reason to change.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Players to keep: Brodie, Baertschi, Backlund, Giordano, Stajan, Stempniak, Glencross, Hudler. The last 5 guys will be our "veterans" for a rebuilding team. Still leaves us with a decent top 6 forwards and top D pairing going forward. I wouldn't be upset with trading Wideman, but I recognize we aren't trading a guy we just signed to a long term deal, so throw him in that mix too.

Players to deal:
Jay Bouwmeester- the return for him at the moment would be really good and he has a palatable contract for this year and next for some team (*cough* Detroit *cough*) to make a deal for him.

Miikka Kiprusoff- under contract for next year as well, he could take a bubble team over the hump (Toronto, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Philadelphia). His actual dollars next year are an absolute steal. He's a proven playoff performer. This opens the door for Ramo, Taylor, Brossoit, etc. to get a shot on a rebuilding club.

Alex Tanguay- Puts up points and adds offensive skill to any club. He has a few years left on his contract, but it's only 3.5 mill. Is a veteran and could be helpful for a team short on skilled forwards (Ottawa-injuries/retiring Alfie, New Jersey, Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota).

Mike Cammalleri- Only one year left on his deal after this one, so somebody could bite on his big salary. He's been putting up good points again this year and has shown versatility in the lineup. He's a big PP guy so could be a good fit for a good team with a bad PP (Detroit, NYR, Minnesota, Boston?)

Blake Comeau- Could be an ok utility player for a team needing speed, PK ability, and checking for a small cap hit and playoff run.

Chris Butler- Not that I think he's terrible, but he isn't helping us win anytime soon. Trade him for whatever draft picks/prospects you can.

Derek Smith- See Chris Butler.

Anton Babchuk- You never know...we traded for him at one point.

Player I am on the fence about: Jarome Iginla. I only say this because in my heart I would like him to retire as a Flame. If they worked out a deal with Pittsburgh to have him as a rental for these playoffs and come back to a reduced contract in the off-season. I'd be ok with that. I just can't imagine this team without him while he's still an active player. His return might be diminished as well, so is it really worth it to trade him? Just not sure anymore. Think Alfredsson in Ottawa, and he isn't nearly as important to the city as Jarome is to Calgary. I guess we'll see what happens soon...

Players nobody will take: Sarich, Jackman, Begin, McGrattan, Cervenka.

Disagree somewhat. I think Stajan and Stempniak might be in the trade category. Stajan plays a position that teams will want to shore up on. He can play 2nd/3rd line centre. Stempniak is one of our few forwards who doesn't have a NTC/NMC and thus one of the only guys Feaster can move at will. And if you can re-sign Bouwmeester I'd actually consider moving Giordano.

Guys I'd keep: Backlund, Baertschi, Brodie, Glencross, Horak, Hudler, Wideman.

I'd consider trading pretty much everyone else. If Iggy is ready to move I'd deal him. I'd love to get rid of one of Cammalleri or Tanguay, two skilled guys but both aren't great two-way players and are very weak/soft at times. I think dealing one of Giordano or Bouwmeester would get us great value back. Stempniak should have good value and doesn't control his own destiny. Surely one of Smith, Sarich or Babchuk would net us something. I'd move Butler in the right deal despite his young age. Wouldn't hesitate to deal a Jackman/Comeau type.

I wouldn't dump everyone but I'd listen to offers for most.

[St. Pats]

I think the real question is does ownership even care about icing a winning product? Looks to me that they are more about saving face than winning Cups. Despite years on end of mediocrity interspersed with dismal failure they just keep on icing the same type of product. Add a player here and there with no apparent plan. Check. See the seats are full and bottom line looks good. Check. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not confident they even care about winning. Even if they do I'm even less confident they know how to put a winning team on the ice.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree somewhat. I think Stajan and Stempniak might be in the trade category. Stajan plays a position that teams will want to shore up on. He can play 2nd/3rd line centre. Stempniak is one of our few forwards who doesn't have a NTC/NMC and thus one of the only guys Feaster can move at will. And if you can re-sign Bouwmeester I'd actually consider moving Giordano.

Guys I'd keep: Backlund, Baertschi, Brodie, Glencross, Horak, Hudler, Wideman.

I'd consider trading pretty much everyone else. If Iggy is ready to move I'd deal him. I'd love to get rid of one of Cammalleri or Tanguay, two skilled guys but both aren't great two-way players and are very weak/soft at times. I think dealing one of Giordano or Bouwmeester would get us great value back. Stempniak should have good value and doesn't control his own destiny. Surely one of Smith, Sarich or Babchuk would net us something. I'd move Butler in the right deal despite his young age. Wouldn't hesitate to deal a Jackman/Comeau type.

I wouldn't dump everyone but I'd listen to offers for most.

I agree, but to add I am not sure I'd trade any of Broissot, Ortio, or Ramo. Let's see what we really got here in North America against AHL or NHL talent before we trade our prospect goalies.

[Wronskian]

Originally Posted by browna

As each passing day goes by without Feaster saying a word to the media about anything, the more it's clear that he's not got the power anymore (whatever power he had to begin with).

When's the last time we heard from Wisebrod (not that its role to speak, but haven't even heard of him, even though he seems like the smartest one of the bunch) or even heard his name referenced? I am sure he's working away, but he's the kind of guy that should be front and centre (behind the scenes) in making things happen, as he's the outside influence this year.

For whoever is in charge:
The Iginla situation is tricky with a lot of moving parts, which may not get resolved in the frenzy of the trade deadline.

If he goes, I think there's a domino effect. Tanguay is then rendered half the player he is, Cammalleri to a lesser extent.
Some guys who came here because of the leadership of Iginla see no reason to stay...etc etc.

Roger Millions mentioned on the fan yesterday that he chatted with him briefly before the Dallas game. Apparently he has spent the last month scouting teams and doesn't plan to return to Calgary until the trade deadline.

I have a fair amount of trust in Weisbrod in terms of identifying potential, but if the mandate from ownership is "win-now", then it just makes his job harder and harder!

[-TC-]

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by -TC-

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by -TC-

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest blowing it up either. But, I think certain pieces can be moved. Iggy is the elephant in the room. Since the answer truly isn't in the room, let's assess who contributes to the answer and who does not, make decisions and work towards them. We have pieces that are in demand, let's understand their value and see if we can capitalize.

[Wronskian]

Originally Posted by -TC-

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

Agreed, I think people misinterpret rebuilding. I think in any re-tool/re-build you absolutely must retain some pieces. The Oilers didn't retain any (well they did but Horcoff and Hemsky? Bust) and they are still struggling to build their defence back up.

Lets say hypothetically we draft Mackinnon. If you slot him between Cammalleri and Tanguay, he will be successful. You need to have a strong group to slot these high-end players into to buffer their development and give them opportunity to succeed. Scorched earth rebuilds don't offer that ability and the Oilers are finding it out the hard way.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by -TC-

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

Solid Pieces over the next 3-4 years:

Brodie - top 4 dman
Wideman - top 4 offensive dman, bottom two defensive dman
Bouwmeester - Top 2 dman
Giordano - 3/4 dman

Glencross - solid 3rd line forward, potential to play top six
Backlund - potential 2nd or 3rd line center
Stajan - 2nd or 3rd line center
Cammalleri - 2nd line player
Stempniak - solid 3rd liner, potential to play top 6
Hudler - 2nd line winger

Prospects who may make a difference in the next 3-4 years

Baertschi
Gaudreau
Horak


The Flames are only missing a goaltender, a top 2 dman, and an entire first line.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by -TC-

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

Exactly! The way this team is playing, they should keep them together and compete for the first overall pick!

That's what you meant right???

[JayP]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

^^^This and as Eric Duhatschek spoke on the fan. Very important decisions need to be made.

Go into your war room with "all" the owners (IE not just Murray Edwards), the president, the special assistant to the GM, the assistant GM, and the coaches. Come up with the consensus of ok we are not good enough to make it right now on March 19, 2013 if the season ended today. Why/why not? Can we make the decision to go for it and go for it is the Stanley Cup not just 8th place when we have been in the same position for the last 4 years and we've never pushed to even just get 8. Is 8 good enough as it was last year, are we good enough to do what LA did? We decide to rebuild/retool. Why? Do we have a better opportunity to win the Stanley Cup in 2 years/ 3 years/ 5 years? Be honest not just with themselves, but be honest to each other and the franchise. Otherwise, if they can't my guess is they will begin to loose the fan base as they did in the young guns era. Very difficult decisions and decision paths if they are not absolutley honest.

This is exactly what needs to happen and likely won't.

When the GM of your team continuously makes arrogant statements like how "if this team wants a rebuild, they need to find a new GM" (like he's above that sort of work) then it's hard to have any confidence in them to make rational decisions. Being able to admit when things aren't working is difficult to do and Feaster has basically proven that he doesn't want (or doesn't have to the power to) admit when he's wrong.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by -TC-

blowing it up isn't the answer...if you look at how many teams have tried and failed at that, the odds of the Flames successfully pulling it off are far to long to justify the risk.

better to try and deal/draft strategically and augment what's already there.

The Flames have some solid pieces on the team and I don't believe they are far away from being a truly competitive group.

Of course they do. If the Flames didn't have good pieces, then they wouldn't have anything to trade. The difference between good and very good teams is very slim these days and often comes down to "having the right mix" or whatever. If you look at the Flames roster, there are plenty of good players, but as a group it isn't working. Getting rid of everyone would guarantee failure. Using some of the coveted players to recoup young players and draft picks while continuing to make shrewd signings and building around some of the veterans already in place allows for the possibility that the Flames find a combination that works. One of the arguments for re-signing Iggy and trading some of the other veterans is that he shelters some of the young prospects brought in from immediately having to survive as the go-to players in a hockey mad market. People around here love to point to the ineptitude of Oilers management to create a winning team around their young players, and a big part of this is going with only young talent as your top end players. Young players take time to adjust. When placed within a strong environment, this transition can be smooth and successful. When there is no one else to shoulder some of the responsibility, you end up with the Oilers. And no, bottom line forwards do not cut it as veteran presence. You need skilled veterans, as well. All of the successful re-builds have shown this.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

Lets say hypothetically we draft Mackinnon. If you slot him between Cammalleri and Tanguay, he will be successful

Those two would be gone or retired before Mackinnon gets here.