Papal Conclave 2013

[Ben_in_Canada]

Argentine Bergoglio stuns world to become Pope Francis

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SebC

You'd have to be quite ruthless to accept all the collateral damage that spreading their message enough to successfully infiltrate them would do. To infiltrate them, you'd have to act like them.

Hey, maybe pope Francis has actually infiltrated them, and he has done such a good job that you can't tell.

Tough to find some one morally corageous enough to take on the job who was also ok with the whole shagging choir boys part in order to maintain cover

[killer_carlson]

You know, the Cathoilc Church is open to criticism for the abuse scandal, but the vast majority of clergy are good honest people.

I tire of the broad brush being used to paint them all as perverts.

I sincerely hope that the new Pope will tackle the issue and resolve it. However, i think there are some commentators who will accept nothing less than the destruction of the institution. I have no time for that.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Tough to find some one morally corageous enough to take on the job who was also ok with the whole shagging choir boys part in order to maintain cover

That is just ignorant. Smarten up.

[JBR]

Big day for the Cardinals, selecting a crusty old guy to lead the sinking ship.

I was talking about Rashard Mendenhall.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Thor

I wonder how many atheists are cardinals, we know that there is a fair bit of them as priests but there has to be some higher up.

I would guess most of them, once your a cardinal you find out in a hurry religion is just big business.

[DiracSpike]

Man I know the child abuse scandal is big news and it's awful, but the worst part about the Catholic Church is their regressive stand on sexuality. From blocking HPV vaccinations to demonizing condoms and other birth control methods they're inflicting untold misery on the people who listen to them. I went to a Catholic school and I remember one Halloween they discouraged us from carrying around those UNICEF boxes because they were funding condoms in Africa. Seriously this Pope needs to step up it's brutal.

[killer_carlson]

The Catholic Church is open to criticism on the

Abuse scandal
Contraception
Homosexuality
Women

Amongst others.

The change will not happen over night and will happen incrementally. I do not agree with manyof the positions of the Church, but remain proud to be Catholic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That is just ignorant. Smarten up.

Unfortunatly it isn't ignorant it is basically the truth, and I was brought up high church anglican and so quite sympathetic to catholicism, truth is though abuse and cover ups have been so utterly rampent in the church to a degree that overwhelms everything else, the male prostitution scandels at the curia are no better, a male prostitute is just a teenage kid that knows hes going to get shagged, which is, I suppose better than some poor kid getting raped.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

You know, the Cathoilc Church is open to criticism for the abuse scandal, but the vast majority of clergy are good honest people.

I tire of the broad brush being used to paint them all as perverts.

I sincerely hope that the new Pope will tackle the issue and resolve it. However, i think there are some commentators who will accept nothing less than the destruction of the institution. I have no time for that.

No, I'm sorry but the truth is the vast majority of the clergy have effectively colluded with the sizeable portion of pedophiles in their midst through their silence and refusal to challenge either the abusers or the church hiarachy, you dont get this size of problem extending to the upper levels of the Vatican without collusion and cooperation from all involved.

I will add, none of the above affects the validaty of your faith or any believer, this is a man made problem that has nothing to do with Jesus or Peter, the church is big rich and powerfull, as such, like all big powerfull institutions, it attracts a lot of ###### bags.

[Vulcan]

Speaking of reforms to make the church relevant, one is to allow the priests to marry. This would attract a different type of clergy. The current situation just leads to more problems.

The rule to not allow marriage was originally a money grab so that the church would inherit the priests estate instead of his children.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

The Catholic Church is open to criticism on the

Abuse scandal
Contraception
Homosexuality
Women

Amongst others.

The change will not happen over night and will happen incrementally. I do not agree with manyof the positions of the Church, but remain proud to be Catholic.

So what do you get out of this church that allows you to ignore these moral problems?

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So what do you get out of this church that allows you to ignore these moral problems?

Just because the messenger is flawed doesn't mean the message is.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Red John

Just because the messenger is flawed doesn't mean the message is.

Well if they stuck to bringing people closer to god while admitting they are imperfect, I'd give them a pass but that's not their message anymore. They are more concerned with controlling people which in the case of contraception, their official stand on homosexuality, covering up of child abuse, and woman's issues leads me to believe that their message has not only lost most of it's relevancy, it's a detriment to man.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Red John

Just because the messenger is flawed doesn't mean the message is.

You're right, but we have non-arbitrary reasons for asserting that both the messenger and the message are highly flawed.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Red John

Just because the messenger is flawed doesn't mean the message is.

Itds buth bro, so sathe dat lord

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So what do you get out of this church that allows you to ignore these moral problems?

Fair question.

It isnt something im able to effectively communicate over a message board. Suffice it to say that i agree the church has flaws and there are very strong feelings i have on the major issues which do not align with the church, but it is the denomination or religion that works best for me. I dont think that it should be forced on anyone and understand that others will choose different paths.

I also see first hand the tremendous work done in communities by church outreach programs, non denominational work that is under publicized.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Fair question.

It isnt something im able to effectively communicate over a message board. Suffice it to say that i agree the church has flaws and there are very strong feelings i have on the major issues which do not align with the church, but it is the denomination or religion that works best for me. I dont think that it should be forced on anyone and understand that others will choose different paths.

I also see first hand the tremendous work done in communities by church outreach programs, non denominational work that is under publicized.

Are you aware that if you don't support the Vatican's position on, say, women or contraception then you are an apostate in the eyes of the Church and are subject to automatic excommunication?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Unfortunatly it isn't ignorant it is basically the truth, and I was brought up high church anglican and so quite sympathetic to catholicism, truth is though abuse and cover ups have been so utterly rampent in the church to a degree that overwhelms everything else, the male prostitution scandels at the curia are no better, a male prostitute is just a teenage kid that knows hes going to get shagged, which is, I suppose better than some poor kid getting raped.

It isnt basically the truth at all.

There are bad people who have done bad things. THEY need to be held accountable. That includes those who hid or covered it up. However it is not the majority and it is improper punish those not involved through the court of public opinion.

We dont do that in a western society.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Are you aware that if you don't support the Vatican's position on, say, women or contraception then you are an apostate in the eyes of the Church and are subject to automatic excommunication?

I dont support the church's position on contraception, women or homosexuals (amongst other things i take issue with).

Should the vatican call me for an explanation, im happy to give them one. Until then, i'll join the tens of millions or hundreds of millions of other catholics who share my opinions and encourage the church to revisit its postions.

Ultimately on many issues i think that comes down to a private conversation between an individual and God.