I like Jay Feaster

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So, which established players and prospects did Darryl acquire? I'll give you Iginla. Regehr was struggling, Lydman was average... what else?

if you are asking me to type out a long post comparing the two rosters, I can tell you that is not going to happen. The rosters can be seen online. If you disagree with my assessment, that is fine by me.

But I'll say this much: 2005 Iginla was better than any current forward. 2005 Regehr and Phaneuf (yes, the rookie) were arguably as good as any current 2 defensemen. And 2005 Kiprusoff was better than any current goalie on the Flames roster.

That seems like a good starting point to me.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

if you are asking me to type out a long post comparing the two rosters, I can tell you that is not going to happen. The rosters can be seen online. If you disagree with my assessment, that is fine by me.

But I'll say this much: 2005 Iginla was better than any current forward. 2005 Regehr and Phaneuf (yes, the rookie) were arguably as good as any current 2 defensemen. And 2005 Kiprusoff was better than any current goalie on the Flames roster.

That seems like a good starting point to me.

Are you trying to tell me Darryl became GM in 2005?

[clancy]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Leopold played 3 games in the minors on a conditioning stint,not sure how that is shuffling between Saint John and Calgary.

As for your statement that there was not a farm team, that is demonstrably false by your false statement that Leopold was shuffling between the big club and the Flames minor league team. Sutter did not inherit a situation where he did not have a minor league team, he was the GM when the team decided to split a minor league team in Lowell, some might even say it was his decision.

Darryl inherited a small market team that had missed the playoffs, Feaster inherited a small market team that missed the playoffs. Both Darryl and Feaster inherited organizations that had farm teams though, not sure why you think the Flames did not have a farm team.

I would not classify the Flames today, as a small market team. To me, the term applies to the ability to compete economically. The Flames are a cap team that make money. When Daryl took over, there were still issues with the exchange rate, their was not a salary cap, etc.
I do agree that they both inherited different messes, and early on in their tenure, both took the franchises in new, and I would argue positive, directions.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

if you are asking me to type out a long post comparing the two rosters, I can tell you that is not going to happen. The rosters can be seen online. If you disagree with my assessment, that is fine by me.

But I'll say this much: 2005 Iginla was better than any current forward. 2005 Regehr and Phaneuf (yes, the rookie) were arguably as good as any current 2 defensemen. And 2005 Kiprusoff was better than any current goalie on the Flames roster.

That seems like a good starting point to me.

Who's starting point was that? Darryl started as GM long before 2005

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

In my opinion Sutter started with less, made some great moves to build the team back up, then went seemingly wacko and undid a lot of the good work he had done.

Feaster started with a pretty bad mess - not as bad as Sutter started with - but close.

In fairness, Sutter didn't have an expensive mess that was up against the cap with aging assets. His mess was more a lack of talent and starting goaltender.

Feaster's challenge, IMO, is much more daunting given the capped NHL landscape and lack of movable assets. And the fact his assets that would bring back return appear to be untouchable from an ownership standpoint.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Are you trying to tell me Darryl became GM in 2005?

Oh yeah right - my bad. Sorry about that.

The concentration level is sub-par, sitting poolside.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

One name: John Gaudreau

I hope you are right

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

One name: John Gaudreau

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I hope you are right

If Johnny hockey makes it on Flames and is like another St. Louis or even a second line forward even he will truly defy all the odds and become an inspiration for all small minor league kids.
I hope he can.

[Flame Man12]

Resigned Tanguay. Resigned Glencross at a discounnt. Wideman, Hudler as free agents. Didn't he bring in Stempniuk as FA. Maybe got the worse end of the Regher deal but it freed up the money to re sign Tanguay so had to be done. I do think its hard to make many deals in todays NHL as there are 30 teams that want the same guy and you have the cap. His hands have been somewhat tied. What has he done that has been so bad? I honestly can't think of a bad move. Now, as long as he re signs Iggy, I will be a Feaster fan til the end.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

One name: John Gaudreau

This is true, I think Gaudreau has the potential to be the best player the Flames got out of that draft, and I think Sven is going to be a pretty good player in his own right.

[LouCypher]

Depth seems to be the name of Feasters game. Always looking to acquire depth at every position. Our D needed depth and we are in much better shape there, Goalies we need to eventually prepare for life after Kipper so he is getting us goalies crowding the crease up a bit.

Needed more skilled forwards and we have those now, which is really key as when you lose 2 or 3 offensive players to injury like we have there is always someone in place who can play the role properly.

Center depth still needs work but still we have seen some strides made and some nice improv, ie: Tanguay at C, Iginla taking more faceoffs, Stajan being put in a role he can actually succeed in. Prospect depth is better and Im sure still more to come. Jones another good example of more depth, needed a center with faceoff skills and some jam and for such a small move its really helped more then might be obvious.

To go with all that Feaster has done to change the team he also added a coach that seems to suit the style of player that the team is built for. Brent Sutter just wasnt the guy for the type of team that was being built and I think we will see it more and more as guys who have underachieved here start to pick it up.

Yeah I like Jay Feaster but still more work to be done over the next year or two.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

The team he took over in 2010:

Tanguay-Morrison-Iginla
Glencross-Jokinen-Bourque
Hagman-Backlund-Kotalik
Moss-Stajan-Jackman
Conroy

Bouwmeester-Regehr
Giordano-Staios
Sarich-Babchuk
Pardy

Kipper-Karlsson

Head Coach: Brent Sutter

Top 5 organizational prospects: Mikael Backlund, Tim Erixon, Greg Nemisz, Mitch Wahl, TJ Brodie

Calgary is ranked 30/30 for prospects by Hockey's Future: "Strengths: The Flames are deficient in a number of areas, but a couple things they have in spades coming up through the ranks are grit and leadership. Players like Greg Nemisz, Brett Sutter, and Matt Pelech embody the Sutter-esque tireless work ethic and lead-by-example mentality. There are also some quality puck-movers on the back end in Tim Erixon and T.J. Brodie for the Flames faithful to look forward to. Weaknesses: That said, there is almost a complete lack of elite talent in the Flames system. The team’s 2007 first round pick Mikael Backlund has top line talent and has been progressing nicely, however the talent of the prospects drops sharply after that. Even once highly-touted netminder Leland Irving has failed to progress as expected, joining the ranks of an underwhelming bunch in Calgary."

The team today without current injuries (don't worry about the lines too much)

Glencross-Tanguay-Iginla
Cammalleri-Backlund-Stempniak
Cervenka-Stajan-Hudler
Baertschi?-Jones-Jackman
Comeau/Begin

Bouwmeester-Giordano
Wideman-Brodie
Butler-Sarich
Smith/Babchuk

Kipper-Irving-McDonald

Head Coach: Bob Hartley

Top 5 organizational prospects: Sven Baertschi, Max Reinhart, John Gaudreau, Mark Jankowski, Roman Horak.

Ranked 23/30 teams on Hockey's Future: "Strengths: After years of poor draft selections, trading away draft picks, and bad player development, the Flames have slowly improved their organizational depth and talent pool over the last few years. Calgary has added some high end talent at the center and the left wing while acquiring and developing more depth and versatile prospects. The Flames also have a very good stock of young goaltenders.

Weaknesses: Calgary has no highly skilled prospects at right wing nor does the organization have any prospects in the CHL, NCAA, or Europe at that position. The Flames' defensive depth is okay but nothing to get excited over. The organization lacks an impactful, puck-moving defenseman.


Alright everyone, look at this team now compared to two years ago. Can anyone truly say we aren't in a much better position because of the direction Feaster has taken us? BTW, imagine this roster if we landed Brad Richards (which we were surprisingly close on). Not every single move is going to be a winner, but there has been slow and steady progress in the right direction after a near abysmal state the team was in. Be happy and thankful we have someone intelligent running the team.

[Weiser Wonder]

I'll go ahead and say that the team is not significantly better than 2 years ago. I like what Feaster is doing too, but there's no real proof that he's a better GM than Sutter or that the team is better now than it was 2 years ago. The prospect pool seems a lot more skilled now, but, on the other hand, Backlund, Erixon, and Brodie are all on their way to being impact players, so the prospect pool wasn't that bad then.

[FlamingHomer]

Originally Posted by Locke

Unfortunately, right now I think this organization is a complete mess and Feaster is just doing the best he can.

Unfortunately I think this sums up the current situation. I personally am OK with him being the guy to eventually sort this all out going forward.

[station]

The good:
- Re-signed Tanguay and Glencross as UFA's to below market deals
- 2012 UFA signings: Hudler / Wideman / Cervenka
- Cammy and Ramo for Bourque and a 2nd
- Stempniak for Langkow
- Hartley and staff (small sample size but looks like a good fit)
- Making something of the Erixon disaster and possibly even winning the deal with Horak and two pretty solid 2nd round picks.
- Not re-signing Jokinen (I liked him but it was time)
- New philosophy (winning and depth) and coach (Ward) for Abbotsford.
- Weisbroad and Conroy in the front office and just surrounding himself with a good team.
- New philosophy on technology: Hiring Chris Snow and upgrading video technology, statistical analysis and scouting.
- Solid drafts: Sven, Gaudreau, Brossoit (6th round), trading down for Janko (and still getting Sieloff), Gillies, etc.
- Getting out of cap hell in order to sign some decent UFA's

The bad:
- Regehr / Kotalik / 2nd for Butler / Byron (I know this was a cap space deal but probably would have been better long term to just take Butler and leave out the 2nd.)
- Rumoured flirtations with Richards, Smyth, other aging players. (Richards would have been a coup but it was crazy term for a guy in his 30's)
- Modin trade (minor though)
- Comeau re-sign (seriously?)

Overall I think he's done a great job as the good far outweighs the bad.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I'll go ahead and say that the team is not significantly better than 2 years ago. I like what Feaster is doing too, but there's no real proof that he's a better GM than Sutter or that the team is better now than it was 2 years ago. The prospect pool seems a lot more skilled now, but, on the other hand, Backlund, Erixon, and Brodie are all on their way to being impact players, so the prospect pool wasn't that bad then.

The last couple of years under Sutter the team was slowly but surely spiraling downward. IMO, Feaster has been able to arrest the decline and the team is now starting to trend in the opposite direction by getting more skilled and a whole lot younger.

A lot of posters seem to expect quick fixes, but realistically I think it's a series of small goals and baby steps over many years that will get this team contending again. So long as I believe it's trending the right way I'll have patience with Feaster.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Alright everyone, look at this team now compared to two years ago. Can anyone truly say we aren't in a much better position because of the direction Feaster has taken us? BTW, imagine this roster if we landed Brad Richards (which we were surprisingly close on). Not every single move is going to be a winner, but there has been slow and steady progress in the right direction after a near abysmal state the team was in. Be happy and thankful we have someone intelligent running the team.

I feel as though if Feaster somehow managed to sign Richards, we would not be seeing the likes of Wideman, Hudler or Cervenka. Maybe one of them sign here but not all three. Maybe Hudler and Cervenka still but Wideman would be somewhere else for sure. Just with the cap hit I couldn't see all four players ending up in CGY if we signed Richards.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I feel as though if Feaster somehow managed to sign Richards, we would not be seeing the likes of Wideman, Hudler or Cervenka. Maybe one of them sign here but not all three. Maybe Hudler and Cervenka still but Wideman would be somewhere else for sure. Just with the cap hit I couldn't see all four players ending up in CGY if we signed Richards.

I completely agree, but our center situation would suddenly look totally acceptable

#1 Brad Richards
#2 Mikael Backlund
#3 Matt Stajan
#4 Blair Jones

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

The last couple of years under Sutter the team was slowly but surely spiraling downward. IMO, Feaster has been able to arrest the decline and the team is now starting to trend in the opposite direction by getting more skilled and a whole lot younger.

Does that make Feaster our Obama?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not too sure why we are comparing 'who's mess was bigger'. Both situations are probably polar opposites.

Darryl:
Inherited a fairly 'younger' team, but one devoid of any talent outside of Iginla. Regehr developed better under Darryl. The farm team was shambles - a history of sharing farm teams with other NHL clubs. Scouting? How big was that scouting department when he took over?

Darryl had to build the drafting and development program for the Flames. Not an easy thing to accomplish for any GM. He gets criticized for trading picks away too much, but really when a team drafts that badly for so long, better to trade those picks for established players. He built a very good team by doing so. However, he laid the groundwork to 'right the ship' at the ground level as well - sold ownership on expanding the hockey ops department (more scouts, development personnel, the Abbotsford Heat).

Sure, you can argue that Darryl left a 'mess' for Feaster - but Darryl also did a LOT for this team that they are still reaping.

Let's look at just the Flames' themselves.

What was Iginla worth back when Darryl took over? I would say LESS than what Iginla was worth when Feaster took over (keep in mind hindsight is 20/20!). Did people really foresee Iginla scoring over 500 goals in his career? Being such a leader? Nope. There was NO WAY. We all loved Iginla back then, but he wasn't the 'force' he was yet when Darryl took over.

Regehr was definitely worth more as well.

Then add in Gio, Bouwmeester, Kipper, Jokinen, Phaneuf, Bourque, Glencross (though in fairness, I don't think Glencross was a big piece then, but a decent complimentary piece with value).

Was the team Feaster took over in 'shambles'? No, it wasn't. There was definitely some problems with it, but that team had a lot more assets than the team Darryl took over - and there was the Heat, the scouts, the development program...

Darryl started with a lot less, and built a pretty good team, and got that team to the finals (fluke or not, he got that team there).

Does this mean that Feaster is worse than Darryl? Nope, it doesn't. Why?

The 'pressure to win'. This is what drove Darryl 'nuts' near the end. The panic trades... Feaster took a team that was SUPPOSED to win, in Canada. Lots and lots of pressure to get this team back to the playoffs and contend. Was it ownership meddling? I don't think so. The Flames were (are?) a fairly talented team whose whole is less than the parts (and has been for years now - at least in my opinion).

Feaster has so far 'failed' to do one thing and only one thing (I think anyways) and that is give them a real 'identity'. They are not quite a skilled enough team to play this offensive, they aren't a strong enough team to play that defensive game, they aren't a gritty team to grind out a wins. What are they? That is Feaster's only failing so far - he hasn't shaped this team to have an identity yet.

What I think is that the identity is still sort of a work in progress. The identity is to build this team into a very good transition team that plays a 200 foot game, with a little grit. The drafting tells me what this team is going to be in the future - skilled with high hockey IQ horses to lead it. It just takes a while. Darryl (or was it Todd Button) was the one that started this 'high hockey IQ' during the last draft. I remember Todd talking about the draft afterwards - Arnold has high hockey IQ, Reinhart has high hockey IQ, etc..

In my opinion - and I have stated this a few times now - Darryl's biggest failure as a GM was getting terrible coaches. Playfair was not ready. Keenan was semi-retired on the job. His brother Brent seemed to only know one single system of playing, and didn't even bother to know what his players were good at (didn't know Kotalik had a huge shot and played the point on the PP for years, or was a shoot-out specialist, didn't know Hagman was a penalty killer, and we already see how much better Bouwmeester is so far).

The other failure of Darryl's was that although he built a much more skilled team than when he took over (and much more than what made it to the finals in '04), that team lost its' identity completely over the years. The Flames to this day are a 'mismash' of this and that, and have absolutely no swagger.

Feaster so far has proven himself as a very decent GM. He needs to prove himself as something better in the coming years, but so far, I don't really have any complaints (except for the Regehr trade - but at least he rolled the dice and tried to land Richards).

Feaster is going to take a bit longer to make an impact on this team than Darryl did, so it is a bit too early to say whether one was better than the other. A comparison between the two can only be made after Feaster gets canned in 'x' years, or wins the cup. All in all, not too much to gripe about his body of work, and also not too much to be excited about, but he is DEFINITELY not a 'bad' GM at all!