I like Jay Feaster

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Jay is batting .000 as far as getting this team into the playoffs during his reign. How can you say he's a big improvement over Sutter? I can see liking his style or the way he does business but he certainly has been far less successful so far.

Like him or not, at least Sutter had this team in the playoffs more often then naught. Feaster does things "the right way" in many people's eyes but if that's not getting the team into the playoffs does it really matter?

Simply awful logic.

Sutter inherited a team with a 25 year old superstar. Feaster inherited a cap strapped team with no prospects and no young players. Sutter was a pretty good GM for a few years minus the drafting. 2010 when he traded Dion and Olli was the beginning of bad moves and bandaid solutions.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Simply awful logic.

Sutter inherited a team with a 25 year old superstar. Feaster inherited a cap strapped team with no prospects and no young players. Sutter was a pretty good GM for a few years minus the drafting. 2010 when he traded Dion and Olli was the beginning of bad moves and bandaid solutions.

I agree. Sutter was actually a pretty good GM who had his fair share of misses.

It's impossible to really compare Sutter and Feaster at this point though. Completely different situations. Sutter didn't have a great situation when he took over, but he had a little more than Feaster did. Then the SCF run made us a relatively attractive place for free agents for a few year. Feaster doesn't have that working for him either.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Simply awful logic.

Sutter inherited a team with a 25 year old superstar. Feaster inherited a cap strapped team with no prospects and no young players. Sutter was a pretty good GM for a few years minus the drafting. 2010 when he traded Dion and Olli was the beginning of bad moves and bandaid solutions.

Well, you could also say Sutter inherited a team a inconsistant starting goalie (Turek) and Feaster inherited a superstar goalie (Kiprusoff) for which, if not for Kiprusoff, the Flames would probably be one of the worst teams in the league.

And no prospects/young players? Who drafted Backlund? Who drafted Brodie? How did we pick up Horak?

[Vinny01]

Backlund hasn't proven anything other than he is a NHL player. I still like him. Phaneuf was the right pick at the time can't blame Darryl for that one even though so many players drafted after him would have been better. Brodie is looking like his best overall pick. The Erixon pick was a mistake from the get go. We had the 20th pick that draft and could have given it to the yotes. Instead we keep it and end up sending them the 13th pick in 2010. Horak and the other 2 prospects are all promising but they were brought in by Feaster can't credit Sutter for that really

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Backlund hasn't proven anything other than he is a NHL player. I still like him. Phaneuf was the right pick at the time can't blame Darryl for that one even though so many players drafted after him would have been better. Brodie is looking like his best overall pick. The Erixon pick was a mistake from the get go. We had the 20th pick that draft and could have given it to the yotes. Instead we keep it and end up sending them the 13th pick in 2010. Horak and the other 2 prospects are all promising but they were brought in by Feaster can't credit Sutter for that really

So Feaster did inherit young players then?

And how about Mark Giordano?

[Enoch Root]

of course Feaster inherited some assets.

I think the point was that Sutter inherited a stronger overall balance sheet than Feaster did. And I would certainly agree with that.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

of course Feaster inherited some assets.

I think the point was that Sutter inherited a stronger overall balance sheet than Feaster did. And I would certainly agree with that.

So, which established players and prospects did Darryl acquire? I'll give you Iginla. Regehr was struggling, Lydman was average... what else?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So Feaster did inherit young players then?

And how about Mark Giordano?

Give me a break Sutter inherited a 25 year old Superstar Feaster has a guy that might be a top 9/top 6 forward and a guy that is currently playing like a top 4 Dman.

Gio was 27 when Feaster took over as was Bouw. Sutter got 23 year old Regehr, and Leopold who were young budding top 4 D when he took over.

It is hard to compare the teams that Sutter and Feaster inherited but Feaster didn't have nearly as much wiggle room to make deals.

[neo45]

Sutter inherited a better team but he also couldn't compete with other teams financially like Jay can. Really hard to compare the two as GMs

Especially considering Darryl's most success as GM came when he was also the head coach. Hard to determine how much was his shrewd management and how much was his effective coaching, either way the credit goes to him

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Give me a break Sutter inherited a 25 year old Superstar Feaster has a guy that might be a top 9/top 6 forward and a guy that is currently playing like a top 4 Dman.

Gio was 27 when Feaster took over as was Bouw. Sutter got 23 year old Regehr, and Leopold who were young budding top 4 D when he took over.

It is hard to compare the teams that Sutter and Feaster inherited but Feaster didn't have nearly as much wiggle room to make deals.

Then why are you?

The team Darryl acquired, the 2002-2003 Flames, were a very close 2nd (to 2001-02 Flames) as the worst Flames team in 15 years. Feaster has acquired a way better team, they were locked up with bigger contracts and players were older, but there is no way the 2002-03 Flames were better then 2011-12. That is ridiculous.

PS : Regehr and Leopold were hardly "budding superstars" ; Regehr was played like a soft teddy bear and Leopold was shuffling between the Saint John and Calgary.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Then why are you?

Did I say it is impossible?

Ask a GM would they rather inherit a team that had one of the absolute best forwards in the game just entering his prime and a top 10 pick in a deep draft or a GM that has a roster full of 30+ high paid players who have underacheived, a disgruntled prospect that won't sign with the team, and the 13th pick in the draft.

I think most GM's would take the first option

[HelloHockeyFans]

I prefer to ignore his acquisitions and their impact and instead, comment on how he likes to talk!

On topic, I really, really like the acquisition of Hudler and glad he's here long term. Wideman is a good add too from an offence perspective, but he is a bit scary on the backend, but that's what you sacrifice to have a true PP QB I guess.

[JiriHrdina]

In my opinion Sutter started with less, made some great moves to build the team back up, then went seemingly wacko and undid a lot of the good work he had done.

Feaster started with a pretty bad mess - not as bad as Sutter started with - but close.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Did I say it is impossible?

Ask a GM would they rather inherit a team that had one of the absolute best forwards in the game just entering his prime and a top 10 pick in a deep draft or a GM that has a roster full of 30+ high paid players who have underacheived, a disgruntled prospect that won't sign with the team, and the 13th pick in the draft.

I think most GM's would take the first option

What Darryl acquired, noting only noticeable assets, in age:

28+ : N/A (maybe Gelinas)
22-28 (prime) : Iginla, Drury, Regehr, Leopold
Young players / prospects : Saprykin, Kobasew, Lombardi
Farm Team: NONE
Team during previous GM regime : 0/3 (0/4 before that)

What Feaster acquired:

28+ : Iginla, Regehr, Kiprusoff, Bouwmeester, Tanguay
22-28 : Gio, Bourque, Glencross
Young players / prospects : Backlund, Brodie, Erixon (top prospect) ... (no young players or prospects, right?)
Farm Team : Up and operating
Team status during previous GM regime: Playoffs 5/6 previous seasons

I will say that Darryl left a lot of dead anchors behind, and there were 2 main young studs (Iginla, Regehr) but that team Darryl acquired was crap. The most exciting thing leading up to Darryl was the SIN line and Nazarov wearing white skates. Darryl might have left this team anchored in big contracts, and his drafting was below average, but we were one of the biggest jokes in the NHL; every home game, Flames fans littered the ice with trash when we lost. I remember sitting through an aweful 8-1 blowout from the Columbas Blue Jackets (IN THEIR EXPANSION YEAR no less... but I paid $40 for my ticket and I was in high school with only crappy summer jobs as income, I'm sitting through this bullcrap).

All this aside... I think Feaster has done a pretty good job for the most part... I'm just not gonna blindly slag Darryl though.

[Flash Walken]

Impossible to judge either Darryl or Jay independently given the lack of information on what their mandate was from their employer.

Certainly, some things we've seen from Jay have been positives, others bewildering.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

In my opinion Sutter started with less, made some great moves to build the team back up, then went seemingly wacko and undid a lot of the good work he had done.

Feaster started with a pretty bad mess - not as bad as Sutter started with - but close.

This is how I see it : Darryl started out with a franchise in disarray, no farm team, small market team, missed the playoffs. Darryl brought it back to respectability.

Feaster acquired a aged team with a lot of old players on big fat contracts.

Different messes...

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Then why are you?

The team Darryl acquired, the 2002-2003 Flames, were a very close 2nd (to 2001-02 Flames) as the worst Flames team in 15 years. Feaster has acquired a way better team, they were locked up with bigger contracts and players were older, but there is no way the 2002-03 Flames were better then 2011-12. That is ridiculous.

PS : Regehr and Leopold were hardly "budding superstars" ; Regehr was played like a soft teddy bear and Leopold was shuffling between the Saint John and Calgary.

Leopold played 3 games in the minors on a conditioning stint,not sure how that is shuffling between Saint John and Calgary.

As for your statement that there was not a farm team, that is demonstrably false by your false statement that Leopold was shuffling between the big club and the Flames minor league team. Sutter did not inherit a situation where he did not have a minor league team, he was the GM when the team decided to split a minor league team in Lowell, some might even say it was his decision.

Darryl inherited a small market team that had missed the playoffs, Feaster inherited a small market team that missed the playoffs. Both Darryl and Feaster inherited organizations that had farm teams though, not sure why you think the Flames did not have a farm team.

[Vinny01]

Darryl inherited a team that was coming off 7 years of playoff misses no doubt it was bleak when he took over. He changed the culture and deserves a ton of credit for it. I think Jay is finally changing the culture here it started with his meritocracy and now with Hartley (I think a coach is the key to a culture change). Both teams needed a culture change for sure which is why Ken King pulled the trigger when he did on both changes.

I would add Nystrom and Lombardi to the young prospects that Sutter inherited who were viewed more highly then than the way the turned out.

We can likely agree that neither situation is ideal to take over. I doubt Feaster is going to get as lucky as Sutter was when he traded for Kipper (unless Ramo is the 2nd coming of Miikka).

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Darryl inherited a team that was coming off 7 years of playoff misses no doubt it was bleak when he took over. He changed the culture and deserves a ton of credit for it. I think Jay is finally changing the culture here it started with his meritocracy and now with Hartley (I think a coach is the key to a culture change). Both teams needed a culture change for sure which is why Ken King pulled the trigger when he did on both changes.

I would add Nystrom and Lombardi to the young prospects that Sutter inherited who were viewed more highly then than the way the turned out.

We can likely agree that neither situation is ideal to take over. I doubt Feaster is going to get as lucky as Sutter was when he traded for Kipper (unless Ramo is the 2nd coming of Miikka).

One name: John Gaudreau

[Stay Golden]

I don't think Sutter got lucky with Kipper. Being the HC with SJ all that time i think he knew Kipper had the real potential to be a starter for the Flames.
He had good insight of the situation.