Annual Trade Iggy thread

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Does he draw the most defensive attention now? He used to, but i have not seen any teams this year putting a couple of guys on him. His puckhandling has gotten worse and 2nd pairing d-men do not have a hard time taking the puck from him.

I will say that Iggy in the line up does not make the team worse, that is just stupid.

I have to agree, he isn't hard to knock off the puck at all anymore. He lost weight to get faster but he can't cycle or crash the net very well anymore.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Regardless of where Iginla finishes the season, he will have more points than any other player on the Flames. I guarantee it. Just as he always does.

At $7 million he better.

[moon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The real question is whether the team will be worse without Iginla + the potential assets that he brought in if traded.

I think the real question is whether finishing 9th/10th with Iginla is better than finishing 12th/13th without him but with the added pieces he nets the Flames in a trade.

Originally Posted by transplant99

What I said, if you read, is that anyone who suggests that the team wont be worse without him is pretty much out to lunch, and that includes Warrener and any other talking head on the radio.

I think it was Duhatscek that suggested the Flames weren't worse with Iginla, if not him suggesting it he did agree with it. Just had concerns about them missing the leadership he provides.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Fire the coach?

Trade for Conroy and Tanguay?

Sign Bertuzzi?

Trade for a goon?

How do we get this boat back on the rail road tracks?

The constant streams of goons into the lineup up until this season has had Iggy's fingerprints on it. While not a huge deal, it does show that he has some weight on the final makeup of the roster.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm not sure about that. Teams seem to be happy to put their top lines out against Iginla's line, and they generally out-score us.

Truth.

Supported by real data, thanks to Metro Gnome:

http://flamesnation.ca/2012/8/20/wha...-jarome-iginla

This is all very much in line with the decline in Iginla's general effectiveness which I began to chart in 2010. A couple of seasons ago, he was merely average at controlling play and lagged behind many of his peers in terms of stature and pay across the league. Now, Iginla has entered liability territory at even strength - he consitently yields shots and possession against while he's on the ice and almost universally pulls down his linemates ability to control play as well.

No doubt some will ask what the value of a shot/possssion based inquiry is when Jarome is still scoring 30+ goals and 60+ points per year. I'll respond with a metaphor -

When a coach gives a player ice time, it is essentially an "invesment" in the player. The potential profit is shots/chances/goals for. The potential expense is shots/chances/goals against. The goal is to have the profit margin exceed the expenses as often as possible and in aggregate.

There are some factors that can help overcome a negative shot differential so that the most important line item - "goals" - remains in the black. Specifically, high SH% and SV% can help mititgate possession issues. Of course, skaters only exert modest influence over those things and they are mostly swamped by issues of randomness and variance.

Meaning - to overcome Jarome's issues of volume (shots/chances against) Calgary will need to control the frequency of goals (the percentages) to a non-trivial degree ir order to come out even or above water. And even though Alex Tanguay is one of the few skaters who can probably amp his linemates shooting by about 1% above normal, the truth is it would take a season of extraordinary luck (well above average percentages) for Iginla's ice time not to cost the club dearly in terms of goal differential.

To get back to the inital question - Iginla can likely continue to put up 30+ goals and 60+ points in the next few years if the team keeps giving him a lot of ice time. The issue is, Jarome's an asset now in the red; his ice time (and therefore production) costs the team shots, possession, chances and goals against. And it will likely continue to do so more and more now that he has crested 35 years old.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

At $7 million he better.

Why do you care about money? You aren't the one paying him.

Look at Lightning fans. Lecavalier is one of the most overpaid players in the league and is signed for the next decade, is putting up mediocre numbers, and yet the fans still love him.

[SuperMatt18]

What killed me last night is just how disinterested Iginla looked.

Constant giveaways, mistakes, etc and nothing in response. No emotion, no hunger, no drive.

Plays were just dying on his stick last night.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by moon

I think the real question is whether finishing 9th/10th with Iginla is better than finishing 12th/13th without him but with the added pieces he nets the Flames in a trade.



I think it was Duhatscek that suggested the Flames weren't worse with Iginla, if not him suggesting it he did agree with it. Just had concerns about them missing the leadership he provides.

Tell Conroy to come down from upstairs to the bench. The combo of him and Gelinas should be enough leadership to replace Iggy.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why do you care about money? You aren't the one paying him.

Look at Lightning fans. Lecavalier is one of the most overpaid players in the league and is signed for the next decade, is putting up mediocre numbers, and yet the fans still love him.

They have Stamkos and St Louis to keep them distracted. If we had some legit elite forwards on this team I think Iginla would get a pass around here to.

[Buster]

This is why it is better for your superstars to be a-holes. When they start to suck (and Iginla hasn't been good...especially at $7m), you can more easily get rid of them.

Iginla's stature in the community helps revenues, but hurts on-ice performance due to misguided loyalty and marketing.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why do you care about money? You aren't the one paying him.

Look at Lightning fans. Lecavalier is one of the most overpaid players in the league and is signed for the next decade, is putting up mediocre numbers, and yet the fans still love him.

Because of the cap, silly.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why do you care about money? You aren't the one paying him.

Look at Lightning fans. Lecavalier is one of the most overpaid players in the league and is signed for the next decade, is putting up mediocre numbers, and yet the fans still love him.

Do they still love him or just don't care that much about him because they have one of the top 3 players in the league who is 23 and a top 15 player to take the focus off of Lecavalier?

I think if you put Stamkos on this team that a lot of the frustration with Iginla goes out the window. heck even just a decent season rather than what we have seen from this team for the past 3 years, 10 games would do a lot.

Plus I have heard/read a lot of Lightning fans who are not at all happy with Lecavalier and would love to see him gone.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Look at Lightning fans. Lecavalier is one of the most overpaid players in the league and is signed for the next decade, is putting up mediocre numbers, and yet the fans still love him.

Might want to check your information again.

Lecavalier: 5g 7a 12p 11gp +2 14PIMs 3PP

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The real question is whether the team will be worse without Iginla + the potential assets that he brought in if traded.

Originally Posted by transplant99

In the short term....no question. Long term? Who knows...would be years before that can be determined.

I believe the answer is more complicated. Perhaps the team will be worse in the short term, but that depends on the definition of short term. If it means the rest of the season, then you are likely right, if it means next season as well, I'm not so sure.

Keep in mind the Flames would not only be getting assets in an Iginla trade, but they would also have cap next year to spend on UFAs.

Therefore, the real question in the first quote could be revised to read:

Will the team will be worse without Iginla + the potential assets that he brought in if traded and the UFAs his cap hit would be used on assuming they didn't trade Iginla and re-signed him?

[Enoch Root]

Yes, other teams are playing their top lines against Iginla.

What seems to be forgotten, though, is that it is LINE matchups. The failure of our top line against other teams' is a function of all 3 players (and includes the fact that we have a converted winger at C).

To suggest that Iginla is a liability because other teams are playing their top lines against his is ridiculous and is a classic example of inventing an argument to back the hypothesis.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Might want to check your information again.

Lecavalier: 5g 7a 12p 11gp +2 14PIMs 3PP

He got all those points from his first 5 games.

Again, sample size, you really like to use small ones. Look at the last 5 seasons.

I don't why Iginla is blamed for not having somebody like St. Louis or Stamkos to play with. Your anger is misdirected.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Might want to check your information again.

Lecavalier: 5g 7a 12p 11gp +2 14PIMs 3PP

Come on Flash, you're better then that. He's off to a great start but we both know that was referring to his back-to-back seasons of 54 and 49 points.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't why Iginla is blamed for not having somebody like St. Louis or Stamkos to play with. Your anger is misdirected.

It isn't like Iginla is the only one people are angry at or that people (for the most part) are personally mad at Iginla and think he did something wrong.

Most of the anger is directed at other people/places.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Really?

Name me one season of the last 15 where if Iginla wasnt on the team, they would have been anything than worse.

Why is this season, all 10 games into it BTW, any different.

Its fair to question whether its time to move him or not and get started over, but to suggest his being gone for the balance wouldnt affect the team in a negative way is pure nonsense IMO.

i guess the knives are out no matter what though.

The knives are certainly out.

There is an appetite for change, and I understand that, and probably even agree with it.

What I don't agree with is the tone of disrespect that seems to have been directed to Iginla from a segment of the fanbase over the past few seasons.

None of the organizational problems the Flames have are Iginla's fault. Is he the player he once was? No. But he has done everything in his power over his career to help the team win on the ice. The fact that he hasn't had an up and coming "Iginla" to help him shoulder the load isn't his fault. This organization missed a great opportunity with franchise greats like Iginla and Kipper being part of the team and not being able to supplement the team with other gamebreaking talent to assist them.

Trading Iginla is certainly a valid option at this point, but let's not get carried away and somehow start suggesting the guy is or has been a detriment to the team. The Flames would be an absolute laughing stock without him, he could have left for green pasture before but he's shown a lot of loyalty to this city and the fans.

I for one will respect the guy no matter what happens and I hope he does get a chance to life the cup before his career is over. And I have no doubt if he gets traded to a contender he will be a massive contributor to their success.

[Enoch Root]

Well said, Igottago.

There is a big difference between discussing the need for change, and vitriolic hyperbole