[PGT] Snowballing in Detroit: Flames win 4-1

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

(Ir)regardless of who Bouwmeester is, a coach can't partner a guy who plays nearly 30 minutes with a guy who plays barely 20. Sutter made Butter play 1st pairing minutes which is unfair to him and since he can't handle it, Bouwmeester has to cover him which takes away from his game. It's a double whammie. You can see since both Bouw and Gio are capable 1st pairing D, they can take chances knowing the other can cover.

The pairings now make sense

Bouw-Gio 25 minute guys
Wideman-Brodie 21 minute guys
Smulter 16 minute guys.

That is all fine and good, but there is one major difference between this team and last years team.

1) Wideman was not on last years team, so his 25 minutes a game that he is currently getting had to go elsewhere

This was the defence, as broken down by minutes player per game last year

1) Bouwmeester - 25:57
2) Giordano - 23:01
3) Butler - 21:36
4) Hannan - 20:21
5) Brodie - 16:28
6) Sarich - 16:06
7) Smith - 15:56

This year

1) Wideman - 25:04
2) Bouwmeester - 24:40
3) Giordano - 24:16
4) Brodie - 17:03
5) Butler - 15:51
6) Sarich - 13:58
7) Smith - 13:07

Fact is that the main difference is that Hartley has a 3rd horse (Wideman) to go with this year. Last year Sutter could not really have played Bouwmeester or Giordano anymore than he did, and the fact of the matter is that a Bouwmeester Giordano first pairing last year would have really exposed how terrible the bottom four were on last years team in my opinion. It might look good in NHL 13, but if Sutter went with

Bouwmeester Giordano
Butler Hannan
Sarich Brodie/Smith

last year it would have likely been an unmitigated disaster.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah but it seems more situational then wanting them to be a pairing. Coming off a PP/PK, guys maybe tired, switching up etc... hasn't been any long length of time really.

It was mostly when Giordano looked like a steaming pile.

I'm just pointing out that for all the whining that goes on about keeping players together, pairings, etc. ALL coaches at the NHL level screw around with their lineups.

We'll probably see Butler and Bouwmeester paired together again soon at some point.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

That is all fine and good, but there is one major difference between this team and last years team.

1) Wideman was not on last years team, so his 25 minutes a game that he is currently getting had to go elsewhere

This was the defence, as broken down by minutes player per game last year

1) Bouwmeester - 25:57
2) Giordano - 23:01
3) Butler - 21:36
4) Hannan - 20:21
5) Brodie - 16:28
6) Sarich - 16:06
7) Smith - 15:56

This year

1) Wideman - 25:04
2) Bouwmeester - 24:40
3) Giordano - 24:16
4) Brodie - 17:03
5) Butler - 15:51
6) Sarich - 13:58
7) Smith - 13:07

Fact is that the main difference is that Hartley has a 3rd horse (Wideman) to go with this year. Last year Sutter could not really have played Bouwmeester or Giordano anymore than he did, and the fact of the matter is that a Bouwmeester Giordano first pairing last year would have really exposed how terrible the bottom four were on last years team in my opinion. It might look good in NHL 13, but if Sutter went with

Bouwmeester Giordano
Butler Hannan
Sarich Brodie/Smith

last year it would have likely been an unmitigated disaster.

With even less horses due to the Giordano injury and overall sucktitude.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

That is all fine and good, but there is one major difference between this team and last years team.

1) Wideman was not on last years team, so his 25 minutes a game that he is currently getting had to go elsewhere

This was the defence, as broken down by minutes player per game last year

1) Bouwmeester - 25:57
2) Giordano - 23:01
3) Butler - 21:36
4) Hannan - 20:21
5) Brodie - 16:28
6) Sarich - 16:06
7) Smith - 15:56

This year

1) Wideman - 25:04
2) Bouwmeester - 24:40
3) Giordano - 24:16
4) Brodie - 17:03
5) Butler - 15:51
6) Sarich - 13:58
7) Smith - 13:07

Fact is that the main difference is that Hartley has a 3rd horse (Wideman) to go with this year. Last year Sutter could not really have played Bouwmeester or Giordano anymore than he did, and the fact of the matter is that a Bouwmeester Giordano first pairing last year would have really exposed how terrible the bottom four were on last years team in my opinion. It might look good in NHL 13, but if Sutter went with

Bouwmeester Giordano
Butler Hannan
Sarich Brodie/Smith

last year it would have likely been an unmitigated disaster.

What was Sutter's excuse when he started off his first year with

Bouwmeester-Regehr
Phaneuf-Giordano
Sarich-Pardy ?

What was his excuse for starting last year off with David Moss as our 1st line center? For the first 11 games even though after game 2 we knew it wasn't working.

[Roof-Daddy]

What percentage of FOI threads in the last two years have been turned into a Brent Sutter is a "sucky" coach argument by Bertuzzied?

25-35%?

Enough already.

Brent's gone, and he won't be back here.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Brent's gone, and he won't be back here.

...because he was a sucky coach .

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What percentage of FOI threads in the last two years have been turned into a Brent Sutter is a "sucky" coach argument by Bertuzzied?

25-35%?

Enough already.

Brent's gone, and he won't be back here.

How is this inappropriate when we are comparing the Flames style of play this year compared to last. You have to bring up the coaching!

Anyways no matter how you put our win/loss record this team sure looks better than last years team. 98% of people on here can agree with that.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I'm starting to come around to the idea that Hartley might be a better coach for this team than Sutter was.

Agreed, I also think the signings of Wideman and Hudler have a lot to do with that. The team has the talent to play this way

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

What was Sutter's excuse when he started off his first year with

Bouwmeester-Regehr
Phaneuf-Giordano
Sarich-Pardy ?

What was his excuse for starting last year off with David Moss as our 1st line center? For the first 11 games even though after game 2 we knew it wasn't working.

Man, I could careless, the bottom line is that if Hartley gets the Flames into the playoffs this year I was wrong and Sutter was the problem. If he gets them to ninth, they probably are both decent coaches, if he does worse then Sutter could well possibly be a good coach who is irrationally hated by some on this forum.

[Phaneufenstein]

Remember when Washington fans poo-poo'ed all over Wideman when we got him...

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Anyways no matter how you put our win/loss record this team sure looks better than last years team. 98% of people on here can agree with that.

I know I can.

I'm starting to think that the wins are going pile up. Hope so.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Man, I could careless, the bottom line is that if Hartley gets the Flames into the playoffs this year I was wrong and Sutter was the problem. If he gets them to ninth, they probably are both decent coaches, if he does worse then Sutter could well possibly be a good coach who is irrationally hated by some on this forum.

Not only will the Flames make the playoffs we will win the division! Even with a gimped Kipper.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Not only will the Flames make the playoffs we will win the division! Even with a gimped Kipper.

If the flames win the division, Hartely is not a good coach, he is a great coach. He would win the Jack Adams hands down. Hope you are right.

Still think even if the flames make the playoffs, they are in tough for playoff style hockey. They would need to add 2 pieces of grit for playoff hockey.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Remember when TSN and Sportsnet poo-poo'ed all over Wideman when we got him...

YUP!

Sure it's only 7 games but he looks like the UFA signing of the year.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

If the flames win the division, Hartely is not a good coach, he is a great coach. He would win the Jack Adams hands down. Hope you are right.

Still think even if the flames make the playoffs, they are in tough for playoff style hockey. They would need to add 2 pieces of grit for playoff hockey.

I don't know, i've watched 5 Canucks games and they just look totally off from years past. The Wild and the Avs can't play defence and the Oilers just suck like always.

If we get Clutterbuck we make the conference finals.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Holy crap. I love the snowball razzing everyone's giving Kerr. Hilarious! hahaha.

On another note: Brodie had a couple of gaffs last night that are quite uncharacteristic of his play. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm just happy he's getting more ice time than Butler. There is justice in this world after all.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I don't know, i've watched 5 Canucks games and they just look totally off from years past. The Wild and the Avs can't play defence and the Oilers just suck like always.

If we get Clutterbuck we make the conference finals.

You and your Clutterbuck,LOL. I would love to have him, but no chance the flames can give up what little prospects or 1st's that it would take to get him.

Canucks have looked better in their last 2. I heard Kessler is skating with the team and will be back soon.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Remember when Washington fans poo-poo'ed all over Wideman when we got him...

they seem to be doing fine without him - oh wait.....

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Remember when Washington fans poo-poo'ed all over Wideman when we got him...

Yeah, haha. Their "#6 in the playoffs"

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

And he had one of his better performances in a Flames jersey in that Chicago game. Someone mentioned it in another thread, but one of the more noticeable differences between Hartley and Sutter is the team seems less wary of taking chances this season. Under Sutter if a player made a mistake they knew that they were going to get reamed by the coach, and possibly stapled to the bench their next few shifts. Hartley seems more prone to letting players recover from their mistakes and prove they can learn from them. The attitude and atmosphere around the team so far is much improved over Sutter's tenure.

Inarestin'. Almost sounds like Sutter's method would be effective in coaching boys, while Hartley's method would be effective for coaching grown men...