Standings Death for Seth?

[Vinny01]

If there is a year to suffer this is it. A top 5 pick looks like a sure thing this year and putting up with 48bad games is easier to stomach than 82.

I am still concerned what will happen with Iggy. I think a trade might be best for both parties because we will get another first and good young player. I just don't see ownership be willing to bite the bullet. We will continue to be a treadmill team unless we hit major home runs in the draft or accept a short rebuild of 2-3 years

[craig.caulks]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Anything in the top five is awesome. Jones, Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov anyone would Love to have those kids on their team.

Let's say the Flames win the lottery and pick 1st, do you trade down a spot or 2 or is there someone specific you'd want?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by craig.caulks

Let's say the Flames win the lottery and pick 1st, do you trade down a spot or 2 or is there someone specific you'd want?

The chances of trading down get lower the higher up the board you go, as the (perceived) scarcity of the truly elite prospects is way greater than landing an A- prospect or a project.

Based on the reading I've done and the few times I've gotten to watch them (Jones a little more), MacKinnon and Jones are the top of the class, 1A and 1B. If you get a top two pick you don't trade out of the top two but you maybe can feel out the other team.

Barkov and Drouin are the next two, and same thing goes, don't go lower than 4th but trade the 3rd for 4th pick maybe if you really think the other team will let your guy slip, they are close in terms of reputation and value but a big drop off again afterwards.

And with these being all 17 year old kids with a couple months to play, picture could change a little, but it's more likely now that there is a riser than any of those guys drop really far.

Monahan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk and maybe 2 or 3 others are all in that next grouping of very good prospects who could be stars but not absolutely sure fire top 6 forwards. Most teams wouldn't trade, say, Monahan for MacKinnon at all so you'd really need to be blown away.

[moon]

Originally Posted by craig.caulks

Let's say the Flames win the lottery and pick 1st, do you trade down a spot or 2 or is there someone specific you'd want?

I think it would be stupid to trade out of the top pick or a top 5 pick. You aren't likely to get much to move from 1 to 2 and moving any lower likely gets you a lesser player than you would like.

The Flames need elite level talent and monkeying around with deals seems like a good way to move yourself out of elite level talent.

[pepper24]

Most of the teams that are 4 or 5 points ahead of us have also played 2-3 games more than us. Last in the league is a bit misleading. Hopefully they can find a way to take advantage of those games in hand and get back into the middle of the pack. Tough though to be optimistic with this team especially after a sure win against the Hawks turned into a loss.

All 6 games they've competed. Some full games (VAN, EDM, CHI) where they have got points. Coincidence? The other have been games (SJ, ANA, COL) where they had good periods and bad periods within the same game. Memories of the past few seasons.

Hopefully Hartley can find some consistency with this team as consistent efforts has meant points. Uphill battle based on past seasons and very similar team but he's the right coach to do it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Matty81

The chances of trading down get lower the higher up the board you go, as the (perceived) scarcity of the truly elite prospects is way greater than landing an A- prospect or a project.

Based on the reading I've done and the few times I've gotten to watch them (Jones a little more), MacKinnon and Jones are the top of the class, 1A and 1B. If you get a top two pick you don't trade out of the top two but you maybe can feel out the other team.

Barkov and Drouin are the next two, and same thing goes, don't go lower than 4th but trade the 3rd for 4th pick maybe if you really think the other team will let your guy slip, they are close in terms of reputation and value but a big drop off again afterwards.

And with these being all 17 year old kids with a couple months to play, picture could change a little, but it's more likely now that there is a riser than any of those guys drop really far.

Monahan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk and maybe 2 or 3 others are all in that next grouping of very good prospects who could be stars but not absolutely sure fire top 6 forwards. Most teams wouldn't trade, say, Monahan for MacKinnon at all so you'd really need to be blown away.

Agreed.

1-2 are untouchable, franchise players either way and you can't trade those picks.

3-4 is a small step down but still elite prospects.

5-8ish is another step down but better than most years for this spot in the draft (and quite a bit better than some years)

after about 8 or 10, there are still lots of solid prospects, but another step down. All 1st round picks this year are valuable (more so than most years), but the lottery picks this year are way more valuable than during an average year.

(all my opinion of course)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Most of the teams that are 4 or 5 points ahead of us have also played 2-3 games more than us. Last in the league is a bit misleading. Hopefully they can find a way to take advantage of those games in hand and get back into the middle of the pack. Tough though to be optimistic with this team especially after a sure win against the Hawks turned into a loss.

All 6 games they've competed. Some full games (VAN, EDM, CHI) where they have got points. Coincidence? The other have been games (SJ, ANA, COL) where they had good periods and bad periods within the same game. Memories of the past few seasons.

Hopefully Hartley can find some consistency with this team as consistent efforts has meant points. Uphill battle based on past seasons and very similar team but he's the right coach to do it.

The Flames have lost 3 home games out-right. Playoff teams don't lose home games.


LA had the most home losses out of playoff teams in the west last year with 14 out of 42.

That would be 8 losses in the 24 home games this year.... 5 more than the Flame already have.

The least home wins by a playoff team last year was 22 (by LA and Phx)

That would be 12.5 for a 24 schedule... Ie the Flames have to win 11 or 12 of their remaining 19 home games AND lose only 5 AND be the best road team in the division like Phx and LA were last year to have a chance to make the play offs.

11-5-3 is what the Flames have to do their remaining 19 home games to have the worst home record of a playoff team and a realistic chance at a playoff spot.

LA and Phx were bigger and tougher and harder working than most teams AND especially this year's Flames.

Maybe they are a miracle team, but they have really dug themselves in a hole.

[Table 5]

This might be my bias showing, but I'd stay away from Barkov simply because of the Russian connection. I know he's technically Finnish, but the guy does have a Russian background (and citizenship) and I just don't rust that mindset to stick around for the long term. Way too many flakes lately since the KHL came around. Same reason I would've passed on Yakupov.....something tells me that guy will not be an Oiler (or maybe even NHLer) in 5 years.

[the2bears]

How about "Butler draws in for MacKinnon"?

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

This might be my bias showing, but I'd stay away from Barkov simply because of the Russian connection. I know he's technically Finnish, but the guy does have a Russian background (and citizenship) and I just don't rust that mindset to stick around for the long term. Way too many flakes lately since the KHL came around. Same reason I would've passed on Yakupov.....something tells me that guy will not be an Oiler (or maybe even NHLer) in 5 years.

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[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

This might be my bias showing, but I'd stay away from Barkov simply because of the Russian connection. I know he's technically Finnish, but the guy does have a Russian background (and citizenship) and I just don't rust that mindset to stick around for the long term. Way too many flakes lately since the KHL came around. Same reason I would've passed on Yakupov.....something tells me that guy will not be an Oiler (or maybe even NHLer) in 5 years.

I don't think we will get top two, Columbus and Florida have that covered. If you have a chance to draft Barkov,, you take it. Btw what makes you think that yakupov will flake? Since the last lockout, radulov is the only young impact Russian player to flake. Ovi, kovi (in spite of him being late to training camp), Malkin, Tarasenko, Anisimov, have all chosen to stay in the NHL.


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[Ashasx]

Filatov, Zherdev, Frolov...

Filatov literally told the Blue Jackets "Filly don't do rebounds".

[Rifleman]

This thread should've been titled "Not winnin' for McKinnon".

[Izzle]

Good point, I wonder if there were early indications of them flaking? I don't see this from the crop I have listed above.

Anyways, I think that Barkov is the clear number three in this draft. Not to mention Barkov is Finnish and the Finns play the most comparable Canadian game from all the euros.


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[IgiTang]

First move has to be Cammalleri, you can recoup the 2nd for him at minimum if moved to a team like Dallas or Anaheim. Then you need to look at moving out Tanguay, if you can get a 2nd for him too, you could be in great shape to consider options on Iginla. If those 2 are moved, Iginla may request a trade to a contender privately. Taking the monkey off managements back so to speak.

If you make those first 2 moves, you then look at your Kipper options. If you can package Bouwmeester and Kipper for a 1st, 2nd and blue chip (Couturier type) then you look at having 2 or 3 2nds, and 2 firsts in a very deep draft. 5 or 6 top 60 picks, Resigning of Cervenka, Hudler locked up, Backlund turning the corner, Bartschi blossoming, Ramo coming over and having a camp of Ramo, Irving, Brosoit, Ortio and potentially Brust competing for Goalie duties.. I see a very bright future and quick turnaround for this team.

Making these moves are hard to consider, but its time. Im a Flames fan first and its a no brainer.

EDIT: plus then Glencross can get put back on the top line where he belongs. Not pushed aside to try and get Cammalleri going.. I like Cammi but im super disapointed how hes playing. Its not like he took the lockout off. He played in the Spengler Cup. Hes been skating. Hes just not getting it done. Its like hes still looking for his teeth out there.

[Flames Fan in Exile]

Whether feaster is mandated by the owners, or he's just stubborn, honestly I don't see him trading any of the core. He's said as much that it won't happen. And if he did, what real return are we really going to get in a fire sale of past due date players? Time and time again the team has stated they wont rebuild aka oilers style... It's not going to change because we hope for the miracle trade of picks and prospects that make us feel any less of the pain that's yet to come. Slow and painful is the flames rebuild mantra, and it's time to stock up on the codeine

[Enoch Root]

Why do people keep suggesting Kipper and Bouwmeester in a package?

No team is going to be able to take on over $12M in cap hit (and both players are still under contract for next year)

[Vulcan]

EDIT: plus then Glencross can get put back on the top line where he belongs. Not pushed aside to try and get Cammalleri going.. I like Cammi but im super disapointed how hes playing. Its not like he took the lockout off. He played in the Spengler Cup. Hes been skating. Hes just not getting it done. Its like hes still looking for his teeth out there.

There is some doubt as to which is the first line so far this season. I don't look at moving Glencross to play with Backlund and Stempniuk as a demotion. Glencross still got over 3 minutes more playing time than Cammallari last night.

This is how Bingo lists the lines. I'm not sure if he's putting a lot of meaning into it but it looks different than previous years when Iginla's line was automatically the #1 line.

Lines:

Glencross – Backlund – Stempniak
Cammalleri – Tanguay – Iginla
Cervenka – Stajan – Hudler
Comeau – Jones – Jackman

[Enoch Root]

The lines seem more like a 2A, 2B, 2C kind of situation this year.

However, the truth is in the TOI, IMO, as well as the PP time.

And according to them, there is no doubt that Iginla's line is still the #1

[Itse]

Bouwmeester is just starting to look good, now is not the time to trade him. Plus a defenseman is not old at 29.