Standings Death for Seth?

[89revival]

I'm obviously not a fan of purposely losing games folks.....my point in posting this thread was to start a dialogue pointing out my distaste for how the team is scared to start a serious rebuild.

How did this team get Iggy? Traded Niuewendyk, they traded away a big talent and took a chance on a prospect, they improved the franchise by giving away a piece that was highly coveted at the time. In doing so they built towards getting to within one game of raising the Cup.

This NEEDS to happen again! I love Iggy, Kipper, i've been cheering on this team for 25 years. In that time i've seen other teams make something out of players that were difficult for fans to see traded. IMO teams HAVE to do it in order to remain seriously competitive unless they are blessed with top end and highly rated prospects. We are not in that position. We have some nice prospects but nothing that looks to change the face of this franchise. I love Sven, Backlund shows glimpses but has not done enough to show that he will for sure be a high end talent. Janikowski is likely years away from having a shot at making this team.

Turn aging assets into future assets is a no brainer. Sure it would be awesome to see #12 retire as a Flame, never to don another teams jersey but it's not the way for this team to get better by admitting that there comes a time to turn over the top end talent and build on something new. What if we held onto Nieuwy and never had Jarome....Nieuwy helped Dallas win a cup when they traded for him and i could see the same happening with a Pittsburgh or whoever traded for Jarome.

Has to happen imo....i'm sick of watching the same old song and dance every year for the last 3-4 years. "Oh don't worry, Jarome always starts the season slow".....Ya no kidding, that's why we always end up in 9th.

This year more then ever you need your best player to be hot and ready to produce from the start of a 48 game schedule. Jarome is being Jarome, a slow starter.

Has Cammelleri really been very good since we got him back from Montreal? I haven't seen it. Is Tanguay really a top line player on many other teams in this league? I would say no, i like him as a player, not as a top line player. When Lee Stempniak is leading your team in scoring and you go 1-3 at home in a short season......you're in trouble.

Don't kid yourselves, have a look at the whole schedule. The game get no easier, they're playing very good teams every game.

As i look through our roster all i see is mediocrity....Glencross, Stempniak, Stajan etc....all players a team needs but these are some of the guys we DEPEND on being top 6 players....that doesn't cut it. Not good enough.

Hudler and Cervenka looked pretty dam good against Colorado, nice to see but in the end those are the type of players that should be on a 2nd line. They looked by far to be better then Iggy, Cammy, Tangs.....

Rebuild the damn team is all i'm asking.

[Yoho]

Look what Nash got the Blue Jackets, I think we may be disappointed with some of the returns our aged players with diminishing numbers fetch,

If it's not a crazy return I'd be just as happy to keep Iginla here if he wants to sign

I agree with a rebuild, I just don't know if the players on this team "parlay" into meaningful draft picks or prospects. The time to trade them was years ago.

[Fire Park '71]

I think the only light at the end the tunnel, for Flames fans, is the retirement of 12, 13, 34, 40. I firmly believe these four players aren't going anywhere until their contracts expire and even then, they will probably be re-signed. Similar to the Rangers of the '70's, 80's, 90's bringing in high profile names that are close to the end of their careers, (Somehow, hoping name power trumps youth and skill). Except the Flames are hanging on to, two high profile names that have been here the whole time and seem to have lost their desire and ability to win. And have re-cycled two others. One has no clue what he is doing and is probably pouting because he is not playing with 12 and 40 and the other is useless on the point on the powerplay. These are some of the, supposed, leaders of your Calgary Flames. Pathetic. And I am becoming apathetic. On a positive side note, PLEASE, Jiri, don't become discouraged. You are the best player on the Flames. Get mad, downright emotional, and show these guys how to win. This is the guy they need to surround with other players that hate to lose and put the team first. And I want to see Brust or Taylor up for a look-see. Do it and do it, NOW.

[Calgary4LIfe]

If the Flames do decide to trade some of their players for picks, unless Cammy gets it going this season, there is not much point in trading him. I would think next season is the best time to trade him even if he gets it going now.

[Matty81]

Teams that rebuild the most quickly and effectively have the stones at the deadline to say theirs isn't a cup team rather than expect they'll be the miracle team that goes from 18th place to the cup. You have so much leverage there because there are so many idiots with fringe teams ready to double down on their 2-3% chances of winning the cup ready to reduce their odds for the next 7 or 8 years.

If you deal even a couple veteran assets at the deadline you could pick up 2 or 3 prospects without a scorched earth rebuild. (assuming the flames are even in that spot, which i'm not convinced of)

In any other business it would be firable to focus on one year with very poor odds of success to the detriment of the next 7 or 8 but not only do the flames do it, a good chunk of the fanbase supports it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Muta

If we had a top three pick, we shouldnt be surprised if we end up trading that down to a 7th or 8th and then getting a 2nd rounder out of the deal. Only three times in the last decade have we picked the BPA.... Phaneuf, Backlund and Baertschi. Go figure, they're all playing in the NHL now.

If we have a top 3 pick in this draft it better be something better than a 2nd to move down.

[PeteLFan]

Can Nate make saves and kill penalties as well?

[edn88]

Maybe Feaster has put a team together to be sort of entertaining, while sucking enough to make a top two draft pick.

suck for 1.5 years (this one included) then come back full of young talent at some pont
Sven, Johny Hockey, Nate McKinnon, Kari Ramo, Hudler, Glencross, Brodie, Gio, etc.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Boner for Joner?

Or at least Goof Off for Barkov.

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by edn88

Maybe Feaster has put a team together to be sort of entertaining, while sucking enough to make a top two draft pick.

suck for 1.5 years (this one included) then come back full of young talent at some pont
Sven, Johny Hockey, Nate McKinnon, Kari Ramo, Hudler, Glencross, Brodie, Gio, etc.

I'm under the impression that Feaster has done what he could to stay competitive, although he's well aware that if we falter we can trade high-end assets at the deadline. My biggest fear was us not having a season, and losing the opportunity to:
1) See what the teams results are on-ice.
2) Allow some of our prospects and youth to get lesser roles and learn the complete game.
3) Miss the final opportunity to sell some assets at the deadline, such as Iggy, Cammy, Kipper, etc. Especially with it looking like a sellers market in a deep draft year.

This draft we should ensure we acquire that coveted #1C such as Mackinnon or Barkov if possible. Moving forward 4-5 years, having a deep middle with Jankowski, Backlund and a big #1C along with our other prospects we will have some great building blocks moving forward and add grit/speed as need be.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The odds of winning the lottery are the same, I believe. But the odds of getting the top pick have changed dramatically for some positions. Finishing last used to get you a 48.6% chance of picking first overall. Now it is only 25%.

I think though for the team who finishes last, even if they lose the lottery, they still only go back one place I believe, so this year at least, picking second should still get you a great pick.

[GoFlamesGo1989]

I'm looking at the draft rankings, and I'm hoping the Flames if he's available at our pick take Sean Monahan. This is the exact type of player the Flames need. A big strong skilled Canadian Centerman. He is putting up great numbers on a terrible Ottawa 67's. here's hoping we get our guy.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Most you can drop is one pick. Not sure how you could be getting a good pick and get leapfrogged and still not be getting a good pick. If we finish last and get leapfrogged and get the 2nd pick, oh well! If we finish 4th and get leapfrogged and get the 5th pick, oh well!

Flames had never had a top 5 pick in their history.

Not entirely true, the Calgary Flames have not, but Atlanta did, Jacques Richard was the #2 pick in the expansion season, and Tom Lysiak was a 2 pick the next year. Of course the Islanders got Denis Potvin with their pick in 73.

As for moving back one spot in a draft....look at 2004, and if you were one of the two worst teams and got jumped over, you got screwed. No one else in that draft was even close to Malkin or Ovechkin. Even this year it could be a big deal to get bumped down from 4 to 5.

[Iniggywetrust]

I feel like this is probably the best year for the Flames to finish in the bottom 5. The biggest reason for that is that we don't have to suffer through a full 82 game season of being a bottom feeder. A quick 48 games of exciting, non defensive hockey, where we lose a bunch and end up 26th in the league.

We can at least have hope for a successful season for half of it, then it's only 20 or so games where it means nothing.

I don't hope for this to happen, but I have not seen anything different on this years team that makes me think they are any better than the last three years. Kipper playing like Dan Cloutier definitely doesn't help our chances either.

[dammage79]

Anything in the top five is awesome. Jones, Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov anyone would Love to have those kids on their team.

[89revival]

If Cgy played last night like Chicago, we lose 11-1....perfect example of what mediocre players do......a team with a real top 6 DESTROYS Chicago last night. Flames find a way to lose. Sure Emery was good, the boys couldn't raise the damn puck in close, didn't even try!!!!! They did the typical "try and smash the puck through a wall routine"....skilled players rip those pucks top shelf.

REBUILD THE DAMN TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where was Jarome? Jarome is the perfect fit on a team where he's not the top guy cause they have other top end talent that knows how to score goals prior to the 15th game of the season. Frustrating to watch him not produce but it happens every year.

Do it Feaster, make the tough decisions.....

[ricardodw]

It appears that the Flames are a long shot to make the playoffs icing their very best star studded line up.

The team has the most talent in years and Hartley has most players playing well and still after 6 games they are 29th in the league.

They have played 5 of their first 6 games at home.

Small skilled teams like the Flames have difficulty picking up points on the road.... not made for grinding out a road win.


This is a short season and if you are going to tank the best one. I am thinking of 2005-06 (the year after the last strike) were the Bruins tanked and drafted Kessel 5th overall and basically changed their team's future

They have no significant injuries..... Although they have more depth than ever.... but it is all small skilled depth. Someone like Byron and Horak have virtually no chance to get called up into this line-up. They were really close to being full time NHL players with the Flames last year.

If the Flames are able to dump salary there will be a bunch of quality bargain basement UFA's avaiable as teams are forced to cut salary to make next years cap.

The Flames have a lot of quality players that should be able to be turned to assets.



Kipper is nearing the end..... According to the contact he signed this was supposed to be his last year. He presents a problem that if he wins 5-7 games like he did last year he still might not come back to play next year for $1 M without a contract extension (or a change to play for a contender) . Then the Flames might finish 10th or 11th rather than 14-15

Right now Bouwmeester is playing better and has much more value than he has had since he was a UFA.

Is it more important for Iginla to be a Flame for Life or play on a contending team? Is he willing to sign a 2 year extension for a home town discount?



It looks like they can play entertaining hockey while losing.

Should the Flames be targeting 8th spot and hoping to somehow escape a beating in the first round? or be setting up for next year and the year after?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

As for moving back one spot in a draft....look at 2004, and if you were one of the two worst teams and got jumped over, you got screwed. No one else in that draft was even close to Malkin or Ovechkin. Even this year it could be a big deal to get bumped down from 4 to 5.

Well this is being talked about as being one of the deepest drafts ever. And the top end is deep too. Before the WJC I heard some talk that the grouping at the top was 5 deep and there wasn't much between those 5. Getting any sort of high pick this year would be nutty IMO.

[Yoho]

Nm

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by 89revival

How did this team get Iggy? Traded Niuewendyk, they traded away a big talent and took a chance on a prospect, they improved the franchise by giving away a piece that was highly coveted at the time. In doing so they built towards getting to within one game of raising the Cup.

Sorry to split hairs here, but the Iginla scenario is quite different than Nieuwendyks. The Flames' hands were tied with Niuewendyk. They couldn't afford him and I don't think they necessarily wanted to move him......until he sat out the first half of the season. Nieuwendyk was less than 30, still in his prime, but he was holding out and had to be traded.

The return at the time wasn't considered great, even though Iggy seemed a pretty hot prospect. It's been said Todd Harvey was who the Flames really wanted out of Dallas, but the Stars wouldn't budge and the Flames settled for Iginla.

Your point remains though and I pretty much agree.