Give Irving the next few starts

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Kipper has been run in the first 4 games and his team has not stood up for him.

Why should he be expected to carry the team when they don't give him the space and support to do his job?

given the fact that he is old now and just seems slow to me means he should sit a little while with out getting his pride hurt from not playing 70 games this year.

With that being said Calgary screwed up by not getting rid of him this offseason before the lockout

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by vanflamesfan

maybe you should have a look at his stats before spewing out garbage like this.

2 of the last 3 seasons, his gaa has been 2.35 or better and save percentage was .920 in 2 of the last 3 seasons as well. And this is on a pretty poor team that missed the playoffs. The guy can still play the game.

Get your facts straight.

2003-2004 flames 38 24 10 4 - 4 65 966 .933 1.69 2,301
2004-2005 finland-w-cup 6 4 1 1 2 9 1.48 364
2004-2005 timra ik-sweden 46 5 97 2.14 2,719
2005-2006 flames 74 42 20 - 11 10 151 1,951 .923 2.07 4,380
2005-2006 finland-olympics
2006-2007 flames 74 40 24 - 9 7 181 2,190 .917 2.46 4,419
2007-2008 flames 76 39 26 - 10 2 197 2,096 .906 2.69 4,398
2008-2009 flames 76 45 24 - 5 4 209 2,155 .903 2.84 4,418
2009-2010 flames 73 35 28 - 10 4 163 2,035 .920 2.31 4,235
2009-2010 finland-olympics 5 3 2 0 1 11 104 2.64 250
2010-2011 flames 71 37 24 - 6 6 182 1,935 .906 2.63 4,156
2011-2012 flames 70 35 22 - 11 4 162 2,040 .921 2.35 4,128


You don't notice quite the drop in save percentage?

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

So because someone makes a statistically accurate comment that you call "ridiculous" and get called on, they must be some banned poster?

You'll last a whole day here. I'm sure of it.

Kipper the worst goalie in the league? Dat kool-aid, I want some.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

2003-2004 flames 38 24 10 4 - 4 65 966 .933 1.69 2,301
2004-2005 finland-w-cup 6 4 1 1 2 9 1.48 364
2004-2005 timra ik-sweden 46 5 97 2.14 2,719
2005-2006 flames 74 42 20 - 11 10 151 1,951 .923 2.07 4,380
2005-2006 finland-olympics
2006-2007 flames 74 40 24 - 9 7 181 2,190 .917 2.46 4,419
2007-2008 flames 76 39 26 - 10 2 197 2,096 .906 2.69 4,398
2008-2009 flames 76 45 24 - 5 4 209 2,155 .903 2.84 4,418
2009-2010 flames 73 35 28 - 10 4 163 2,035 .920 2.31 4,235
2009-2010 finland-olympics 5 3 2 0 1 11 104 2.64 250
2010-2011 flames 71 37 24 - 6 6 182 1,935 .906 2.63 4,156
2011-2012 flames 70 35 22 - 11 4 162 2,040 .921 2.35 4,128


You don't notice quite the drop in save percentage?

No one is comparing him to the Kipper of old when he was a top 3 goalie in this league. You're calling him the worst in the league. You're being ridiculous and you know it.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

You'll last a whole day here. I'm sure of it.

Kipper the worst goalie in the league? Dat kool-aid, I want some.

You don't need kool-aid, you're already drinking it if you don't think that Kipper isn't currently the worse starter in the league. He's the worse statistically speaking, and there's no way you can objectively say he isn't if you've watched any amount of Flames hockey this year.

Will he remain to be the worse, I highly doubt it, but the days of him being a top 10 goalie are over.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

No one is comparing him to the Kipper of old when he was a top 3 goalie in this league. You're calling him the worst in the league. You're being ridiculous and you know it.

How is it being ridiculous? The stats are right in front of you. There's isn't a worse starter in the league CURRENTLY.

[kehatch]

If this team starts winning it is because Kipper turns it around. If this team sits Kipper it is the equivalent of waving the white flag. I don't like it. I think it is crap that management let the team get to this situation. But they have to give Kipper a chance to work out of this.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If this team starts winning it is because Kipper turns it around. If this team sits Kipper it is the equivalent of waving the white flag. I don't like it. I think it is crap that management let the team get to this situation. But they have to give Kipper a chance to work out of this.

Of course they have to. They didn't bother to acquire a qualified backup. As much as I'm a fan of the Wideman, Cervenka, and Hudler pickups, they make absolutely no sense if you don't plan on going all out to make the playoffs, and if you plan on going all out to make the playoffs, you'd think you'd make sure you have a Plan B should Kipper fall apart or get injured. It's criminal that this was not addressed.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

How is it being ridiculous? The stats are right in front of you. There's isn't a worse starter in the league CURRENTLY.

Oh, if you're basing solely on stats thru the first two weeks, then yeah, I can't argue. I came back with saying it's too small a sample size to judge, you came back with decreasing stats over the years. But those decreasing numbers are still better than plenty of starters in the league.

Kipper has the skill set and resume to back up the fact that he is a top 15 goalie in this league. You can't solely look at 6 freakin games.

You calling him the worst goalie is truly an ignorant statement. There isn't a GM, coach, analyst or whatever that would call Kipper the worst.

Give your head a shake. I'm done with this.

[dammage79]

And at what point do you figure that another goalie gets some starts realizing Kipper is nearing the end of his career. Irving or any other back up aren't going to magically get better in the NHL without getting some starts. Im not saying anything to the drastic effect of the other poster here. But you gotta call a spade a spade, and right now Kipper isnt doing much at all.

And I really do not want to have the entire season resting on kippers shoulder if he isnt getting any better. Especially if those loses could help season a future replacement for him.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

Of course they have to. They didn't bother to acquire a qualified backup. As much as I'm a fan of the Wideman, Cervenka, and Hudler pickups, they make absolutely no sense if you don't plan on going all out to make the playoffs, and if you plan on going all out to make the playoffs, you'd think you'd make sure you have a Plan B should Kipper fall apart or get injured. It's criminal that this was not addressed.

Leaving themselves outs hasn't exactly been a strong point of the Flames team building strategy. It is a team that needs everything go right and can't tolerate anything going wrong.

Many of us predicted that goal tending might be the Flames biggest weakness this season. It is early, but so far that prediction is proving to be correct.

That said, there wasn't exactly a bunch of options for the Flames this season. None of the veteran guys are going to carry the load. And wasting assets to acquire a guy like Bernier when they are banking on Ramo next season doesn't make sense.

If Toronto or another team is interested though I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on a guy like Bernier and get what we can for Kipper. But the Flames won't.

They would rather take a chance that Kipper is great and get nothing if they are wrong rather then take a chance on a guy like Bernier and still have a young up and commer if they are wrong.

Frustrating fing team.

[Teroy]

Kipper has been weak but he's not the reason we're losing. That blames has to be laid at the feet of the players making the big bucks and not producing. It's not good enough that Iginla works hard, he gets paid to score. I'm sick of seeing him fed the puck and all he does is wind up for a slap shot. Cammi's not producing, Glencross is hit or miss. We spend too much time blaming the guys who don't get paid big bucks like Butler. Time to lay the blame where it is due.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Leaving themselves outs hasn't exactly been a strong point of the Flames team building strategy. It is a team that needs everything go right and can't tolerate anything going wrong.

Many of us predicted that goal tending might be the Flames biggest weakness this season. It is early, but so far that prediction is proving to be correct.

That said, there wasn't exactly a bunch of options for the Flames this season. None of the veteran guys are going to carry the load. And wasting assets to acquire a guy like Bernier when they are banking on Ramo next season doesn't make sense.

If Toronto or another team is interested though I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on a guy like Bernier and get what we can for Kipper. But the Flames won't.

They would rather take a chance that Kipper is great and get nothing if they are wrong rather then take a chance on a guy like Bernier and still have a young up and commer if they are wrong.

Frustrating fing team.

I'd wager a lot of money Kipper hangs them up after this season, and Iggy plays out the year and signs somewhere else, leaving us with our hands in our pockets. I hope like hell it doesn't end this way, but management seems hell-bent on self destruction.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Kipper has been weak but he's not the reason we're losing. That blames has to be laid at the feet of the players making the big bucks and not producing. It's not good enough that Iginla works hard, he gets paid to score. I'm sick of seeing him fed the puck and all he does is wind up for a slap shot. Cammi's not producing, Glencross is hit or miss. We spend too much time blaming the guys who don't get paid big bucks like Butler. Time to lay the blame where it is due.

Kipper has been among the highest paid players in the league for a few years now.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Oh, if you're basing solely on stats thru the first two weeks, then yeah, I can't argue. I came back with saying it's too small a sample size to judge, you came back with decreasing stats over the years. But those decreasing numbers are still better than plenty of starters in the league.

Kipper has the skill set and resume to back up the fact that he is a top 15 goalie in this league. You can't solely look at 6 freakin games.

You calling him the worst goalie is truly an ignorant statement. There isn't a GM, coach, analyst or whatever that would call Kipper the worst.

Give your head a shake. I'm done with this.

You could look at the last 5-seasons before this one and see that he was the bottom 5 in SV% leaders for three of those seasons.

The bottom line was he was crap in both seasons under Keenan and nearly crap in one season under Sutter. He was merely above average his first season under Sutter. He was great last season. Really great. But that doesn't mean he is a still a great goalie or that he will be play great this season.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Kipper has been weak but he's not the reason we're losing. That blames has to be laid at the feet of the players making the big bucks and not producing. It's not good enough that Iginla works hard, he gets paid to score. I'm sick of seeing him fed the puck and all he does is wind up for a slap shot. Cammi's not producing, Glencross is hit or miss. We spend too much time blaming the guys who don't get paid big bucks like Butler. Time to lay the blame where it is due.

Why does Kipper get a free pass? He gets paid a bunch and he's not performing either. If he was being left out to hang, that's one thing. But he's letting in bad goals. He's not playing good goalie right now. Simple as that. He's definitely a piece, a big piece to the equation as to why the Flames are 1-3-1 right now.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

I'd wager a lot of money Kipper hangs them up after this season, and Iggy plays out the year and signs somewhere else, leaving us with our hands in our pockets. I hope like hell it doesn't end this way, but management seems hell-bent on self destruction.

I think if we continue to lose we trade Iginla this season. I also think Kipper plays at least one season with the Flames. I think he likes to play. I wouldn't be shocked to see either sign an extension.

We are risking losing either or both for nothing. And shame on the organization for taking that risk. But I think it is unlikely we lose Iginla for nothing. Though I could see us lose Kipper after next season.

The bigger sin though is failing to get market value when these guys were worth something. They are still valuable assets. But not as valuable as they used to be.

[Dion]

The Flames season is going to rest on how Kiprusoff plays the rest of the season. I'd like to see Irving get a start soon but I think Hartley is going to let Kiprusoff play until he regains his old form. It's a huge gamble with this being a shortened season and I don't think we can afford to wait if it takes longer than a few games.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I think if we continue to lose we trade Iginla this season. I also think Kipper plays at least one season with the Flames. I think he likes to play. I wouldn't be shocked to see either sign an extension.

We are risking losing either or both for nothing. And shame on the organization for taking that risk. But I think it is unlikely we lose Iginla for nothing. Though I could see us lose Kipper after next season.

The bigger sin though is failing to get market value when these guys were worth something. They are still valuable assets. But not as valuable as they used to be.

I get the feeling, and it's just my personal feeling, that management will never trade Iginla. They know the divorce is inevitable, but would rather Iginla be the one that serves the papers so public perception isn't that they shipped him out of town. I don't think the owners of this team have much faith that fan support will be there if they are the ones that initiate the rebuild.

I also think the Flames fans would be much more accepting of a rebuild than the owners think. This isn't the 90's anymore. Lots of parity and a team can go from bottom to top in 3 years (unless you are the Oilers) with the proper management in place.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

I get the feeling, and it's just my personal feeling, that management will never trade Iginla. They know the divorce is inevitable, but would rather Iginla be the one that serves the papers so public perception isn't that they shipped him out of town. I don't think the owners of this team have much faith that fan support will be there if they are the ones that initiate the rebuild.

I also think the Flames fans would be much more accepting of a rebuild than the owners think. This isn't the 90's anymore. Lots of parity and a team can go from bottom to top in 3 years (unless you are the Oilers) with the proper management in place.

I agree with the bottom. I hope the top isn't true. I think Iginla understands the situation the Flames are in and will either commit to a contract extension or suggest a trade if the Flames aren't in it come the deadline.

If we aren't in it and he isn't signing he might as well get traded to a cup contender now and have one more year to get the cup.

If he gets injured near the deadline or if the Flames are a bubble team and he still wants to give us a chance then perhaps we lose him for nothing. It isn't impossible we lose him for nothing. But I think the Flames are either out and we trade him, or we are in and we sign him.