First nations will blockade roads as part of 'Idle No More' protest

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by valo403

You have completely skewed the situation, so congrats on that. Nobody has been discussing anything to do with trade school vs. university or anything even remotely comparable to that. Go back and read the examples presented.

holy cr*p, if you cant understand that I am using an example to show a difference between prejudice and racism there is no hope. rather than take it as an example of clearly different meanings you want to argue that no one has talked about trade school vs. university??

way to miss the point

only point i'm making is there is a difference between prejudice and racism. I'm done with that point, you few people can get back to calling everyone else a racist redneck now.

peace

[DuffMan]

I'm hungry for soup.

[yads]

Any way we can move the racist/prejudice discussion to another thread?

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd like to thank Theresa Spence for wasting healthcare dollars and resources with her con job by staying in a hospital overnight for observation.

I can only hold out some great and probably unrealized hope that she will be turfed by her band council, and then the books will be completely opened up.

[CaptainCrunch]

When this was getting play on the news as Washington, D.C. T.V. where a stupid anchor person quips that its a dieting failure that someone can go on a fast for 40 days and come out fatter then you know its a conjob.

[polak]

How are we all so surprised?

A band chief lied???? NO WAY.

Vulcan was right, why should they require more transparency with their financials??

[CaptainCrunch]

When the money that they're getting to run their bands is pretty much strictly public funds and not taxes raised from their constituents, and when its pretty apparent that those funds are for a lot of them not going to improvements but lining the pockets of themselves and family and friends then they are pretty much like government employees and freedom of information does apply.

We know how much MP's get paid, and how much they spend within their programs.

The same needs to apply to the band chiefs.

The Transparency Act might do a good job of kicking some of theses shysters in the act and ensuring that more money goes towards improvements of their bands.

[Makarov]

Since this thread has degenerated back to mostly fat jokes, I thought that some may find this excerpt (from a January 4, 2013, National Post article on Chief Spence's hunger strike) interesting:

Ms. Spence’s condition may also be affected by the fact that she did not begin the strike on a lean frame. Not only does she have larger fat stores, but they may have slowed her weight loss in the strike’s opening days.

A 1998 study published in the British Medical Journal claimed that, in the first 60 hours of a hunger strike, “obese” subjects had lost 2.5% of their body weight, while “lean” subjects had dropped 3.9%.

Over two weeks, added the study, obese subjects had dropped only 9.3% of their initial body weight — just shy of the 10% threshold at which the researchers advocated beginning daily medical monitoring of the subject.

Sixty days is typically when hunger strikers see their health go into a tailspin. The body runs low on stores of fat for fuel, and begins to eat away at muscles and vital organs for energy.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When the money that they're getting to run their bands is pretty much strictly public funds and not taxes raised from their constituents,

One quibble: taxed raised from band members (i.e., "their constituents") is still "public funds".

Also, band members, whether residing on reserve or off reserve, invariably contribute money through taxes etc. to federal government coffers.

Lastly, it is interesting to note that many bands are now using their taxation powers (conferred by certain provisions of the Indian Act, the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, the First Nation Goods and Services Tax Act, etc.) to raise tax revenues independent of the federal government. For example:

As of November 2011, eight Indian Act bands are levying the FNST, which generates more than $6 million per year.

As of November 2011, a total of 23 Aboriginal governments have implemented the FNGST and additional agreements are currently being negotiated. As a group, the Aboriginal governments that have implemented the FNGST receive remittances that total approximately $12 million per year.

As a group, the Aboriginal governments that have implemented personal income taxes receive approximately $13 million per year. In certain circumstances, remittances of FNPIT may be subject to a revenue sharing mechanism.

A total of 134 First Nations currently have enacted by-laws under section 83 of the Indian Act, while another 60 bands have enacted by-laws under the FSMA. Annual revenues from real property taxes exceeded $70 million in 2010-11.

SOURCE: Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada

This still accounts for a relatively small portion of band expenditures of course, but it does appear to be a growing trend.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sorry, I don't see where I am obligated to give this woman any benefit of the doubt. Beyond the fact that throughout the strike there have been medical professionals disputing that she's on any kind of fast.

And the fact that its pretty clear that this woman has mismanaged and ripped off her people, her band and the Canadian Government and she has zero credibility to me.

I doubt that she lost any percentage of her body weight, it looks like she put on facial pounds in her press conference.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

One quibble: taxed raised from band members (i.e., "their constituents") is still "public funds".

Also, band members, whether residing on reserve or off reserve, invariably contribute money through taxes etc. to federal government coffers.

Lastly, it is interesting to note that many bands are now using their taxation powers (conferred by certain provisions of the Indian Act, the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, the First Nation Goods and Services Tax Act, etc.) to raise tax revenues independent of the federal government. For example:









SOURCE: Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada

This still accounts for a relatively small portion of band expenditures of course, but it does appear to be a growing trend.

I stand corrected on that, however the amount is nearly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, so I still stand by my earlier post.

I think that the bands leaders and spending need to be transparent and made available, I think that the Indian Affairs department needs to be reformed as well as they have been terrible.

[CaptainCrunch]

If Spence wanted to clear up the whole diet thing she would allow the doctors and nurses that treated her after she gave up her fast to actually hold a press conference to discuss the results of any tests.

but that will never happen, they probably had to pump her stomach for a hamburger overdose.

And no that's not racist or weightist

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I stand corrected on that, however the amount is nearly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, so I still stand by my earlier post.

Yeah, I think that is fair. I just thought that it is interesting that some bands are now exploring their own means of raising revenues, independent of the federal government. I think that is a positive trend for everyone involved.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that the bands leaders and spending need to be transparent and made available,

I don't think anyone really disagrees with this. Most people who are critical of the Financial Transparency Act are unhappy with the process (perceived as a top-down imposition by the federal government with little or no consultation with first nations bands) rather than the substance of the bill itself. Personally, I think that, despite insufficient consultation with, and involvement of, first nations bands (which, let's face it, was a political no-brainer and a huge facepalm by Harper et co.), the Act will have real long term benefits (improved accountability and governance) to band members.

Just to note, one criticism I do have is that if bands fail to meet reporting requirements, the Minister is empowered to withhold funds otherwise due to the band. That would seem to just punish the band members (who potentially have already been victims of financial mismanagement of their funds by the band.)

[CaptainCrunch]

I would prefer that the government would not withhold funds because of clear corruption or incompetence, When Spence had a housing crisis and Harper released emergency funds and wanted to send trailers to the reservation, he also sent a third party financial manager who was quickly thrown out by Spence who screamed that it went against the right to self government by the Natives. The truth was closer to the fact that he wanted to look at the books and she had a hissy fit.

I think in terms of housing crisis issues and other issues that the government should provide logistical support instead of simply sending money, and deduct the costs from the funding.

Personally we are in a immense tar baby with the self governance requirements that Band leaders want and demand, and the only way to ensure that the funds are spent properly is to force the Bands to have the same level of personal and band reporting that a small municipality would have, and the same level of transparency that a city council would have, and that includes how much the Councillors are getting paid. Either that or firmly set what a band leaders and Councillors can get paid and a firm set of rules for expense re-reimbursement.

On top of that I think that the FN should have a set process for taking control of failing bands and administering them in the same way that a state or municipal government in the States can be taken over by federal management if they are failing.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Since this thread has degenerated back to mostly fat jokes, I thought that some may find this excerpt (from a January 4, 2013, National Post article on Chief Spence's hunger strike) interesting:

So lets say she started out weighing 200 lbs (which frankly I think is a conservative estimate)...

Using the percentages in your quote.. .After 60 hours (2.5 days) she should have lost 5 lbs and after 2 weeks she should have lost a total of 18.6 lbs.
Well, after 6 weeks she says she lost about 30 lbs. on her "hunger strike". That's only an additional 11.4 lbs over 4 weeks! I call bull####!

[Rerun]

Excellent article written by Dr. Douglas Bland,professor emeritus at Queen’s University and author of Uprising, the story of a future First Nations’ insurgency in Canada.

First Nations sovereignty demands a new point of conflict

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Fi...#ixzz2J287mDiX

In the midst of the First Nations’ growing demand for sovereignty, the Conservative government recently passed through the House of Commons legislation that to many First Nations’ leaders seemed intent on dismissing even the notion of First Nations “sovereignty association” on native land. This tactic has now ignited a dangerous, smouldering conflict over who in Canada is sovereign where.

Harry Swain, deputy minister of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (1987-1992), though a champion for meaningful changes in the laws, believed that a First Nations pursuit of sovereignty in any meaningful form is a dangerous strategy. It demands nothing less than the surrender by the federal government of sovereignty over vast areas, an act that Canadian citizens would never tolerate any more than they would tolerate kindly Quebec’s independence. He concluded in his excellent study, Oka, (2010): “At the root of the issue is the persistent claim by (First Nations) that they are sovereign states. It is hard to see anything but capitulation or bloodshed if the issue is forced.”

[CaptainCrunch]

Sovereign nations don't need to be welfare states of other nations and accept massive funding without some expectation of repayment.

So the Natives like Quebec are not and cannot be considered sovereign nations as they won't survive without Canadian funding.

AS much as the Natives have said that they haven't been consulted enough when it comes to the consuming of natural resources they have and have agreed to them in the fact that the people on these reservations have take jobs on these projects in a lot of cases and have provided services and goods to these projects.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

This thread is really starting to suck.

It is starting to suck, rubberduck, it's bogged down in muck, and the conversation's stuck, but with any luck the folks of Cpuck will be able to buck this side debate run amuck. I'm really quite awstruck like I've been hit by a truck, at the racist undertones, like ****!

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sovereign nations don't need to be welfare states of other nations and accept massive funding without some expectation of repayment.

So the Natives like Quebec are not and cannot be considered sovereign nations as they won't survive without Canadian funding.

AS much as the Natives have said that they haven't been consulted enough when it comes to the consuming of natural resources they have and have agreed to them in the fact that the people on these reservations have take jobs on these projects in a lot of cases and have provided services and goods to these projects.

Well they are getting paid for a job or a service but its a rare case when they actually provide it..... I have no problem with the reserves getting offered the work but if the companies are forced to use them as workers , then the FN's should have to be held accountable to show up and properly provide the job/service being granted to them.
That or just stop the charade , instead of pretending they are getting compensated for services and work just give them a payout right from the start. Then they can hire the non reserve contractors that come in and do the work anyway since in most cases the FN workers stop showing up after a day if they show up at all. (But of course still getting paid the entire time)

[CaptainCrunch]

For the most part they are getting paid. Deboer's has given Chief Spence $325 million over the last 5 years.