Maybe the word enjoy is the confusing part. Take out the enjoyment factor and there is still some point to eating meat. Take the enjoyment factor out of the kicking dog analogy and what are you left with?
People don't NEED the Internet... Yet here you are
Yes, because I enjoy using the internet.
I'm saying that most people eat meat because they enjoy it, not because they have a physical need for it that couldn't be provided by plant-based material.
I'm saying that most people eat meat because they enjoy it, not because they have a physical need for it that couldn't be provided by plant-based material.
A plant is a living thing on this planet too. It's just easier to catch. Quit being so damn lazy.
Again that is not what I said, what I said was there is still some benefit to eating meat, there would be no benefit to kicking dogs. So the comparison doesn't really make sense. But I think we are just going in circles so yeah.
People don't need to eat living plants either. What's your point?
nutrition comes from plants. Vegetables provide far greater nutritional value then meats. Hence the daily recommended minimum vegetable servings by health canada instead of a daily recommended meat servings criteria.
Just because humans evolved from monkeys doesn't mean we have to continue acting like apes.
If I enjoy kicking a dog and it releases positive endorphins to my body, then there is a positive net effect on my health.
Well, actually yes, It does mean there will be a genetic effect on how we as a species act. Humans are not so far removed from their evolutionary upbringing therefore we will have moments where we will continue to act like apes. Case in point, territorial dominance i.e countries. Having a hierarchy. Maybe when humans or for that matter all species evolve to the point where all territories are merged and there is no alpha culture then maybe we choose to not eat meat.
In the real world kicking a dog is a crime, its abuse. Charges would be pressed if someone chose to step up and press them and henceforth would lose your dog and get a hefty fine. And its not going to affect the rest of the humans in any way. But it will affect you. Thing is again, when it comes down to your perceived view that it is a criminal act to boil a shellfish, no one is going to get charged for cooking a meal. See the ridiculous comparison you are trying to make?
Don't cry for me, Rutabaga
The truth is, I like to roast you
Mash you through with butter
Neeps and tatties
Mashed, pureed and cawl
Don't give me flatulence...
In the real world kicking a dog is a crime, its abuse. Charges would be pressed if someone chose to step up and press them and henceforth would lose your dog and get a hefty fine. And its not going to affect the rest of the humans in any way. But it will affect you. Thing is again, when it comes down to your perceived view that it is a criminal act to boil a shellfish, no one is going to get charged for cooking a meal. See the ridiculous comparison you are trying to make?
Well, laws are an artificial construct in and of themselves. Homosexuality is a crime in many countries. You can't seriously base your ethics solely on what is legal vs illegal within a given border.
I think the "plants feel pain" bit was covered a few pages back, but that's how these threads tend to go.
"PLANTS FEEL PAIN TOO"
"No they don't, and most certainly not to the extent that animals do and even if they did eating plants would mean less suffering.."
"BUT PLANTS FEEL PAIN TOO!!"
And around we go....
I've been debating animal suffering on this forum many years before I lost a single pound. I was a vegetarian at 340 pounds and still a vegetarian at 170 pounds.
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There are wild turkeys running through Barrhaven, Ottawa. There are plenty of wild cows roaming through India. Wild boar throughout the world. The only things that would go extinct would be the tortured hormone-laden creatures that live lives of utter misery day in and day out. These genetic mutations that we call cows today are nothing like what nature intended and no, they are not suited to surviving in the wild... we've invented chickens that fall over because their chests are so large that their legs cannot support them. And I think letting those kind of chickens go extinct would be the most humane thing to do.
As a goal I try to avoid feedlot mass production meat and would agree especially in the case pf chickens raised in cages that it is a cruel way to raise food. But to say that a food animal has no value or is in all cases tortured is a very extreme position to be taking. The standard hormone laden beef cow in canada doesnt have it to bad. The grass fed and finished beef from small farms have great lives, probably better than the average wild animal that might replace them if the grazing land not suitable for farming was returned to the wild.
The infant mortality for farm animals is going to be far less than that of a wild animal. I think the issue is a lot more complex than just not eating meat means no animal suffering.
For example if rangeland in wild spaces was not used for cattle and was replaced with wolves and deer you would still have a lot of animals suffering and starving. Now it might make some feel better that it is now the natural world causing the suffering but the level of cruelty and suffering that a wild animal faces is far greater than a small farm animal.
Anyway I am very comfortable eating meat and outside of commercial chicken operations dont see excessive suffering. And I would argue that small farmed grass finished beef, real free range chickens, and non industrial pig operations might be the animals that suffer the least over the course of their lives compared to their wild counterparts.
Well, laws are an artificial construct in and of themselves. Homosexuality is a crime in many countries. You can't seriously base your ethics solely on what is legal vs illegal within a given border.
I think the "plants feel pain" bit was covered a few pages back, but that's how these threads tend to go.
"PLANTS FEEL PAIN TOO"
"No they don't, and most certainly not to the extent that animals do and even if they did eating plants would mean less suffering.."
"BUT PLANTS FEEL PAIN TOO!!"
And around we go....
