Shellfish may feel pain when cooked

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

That's a very well thought out response. I appreciate the effort that you put into rebutting my point. I congratulate you on the brilliancy of this counter-point.

Ad-hominum attacks on the internet really, really don't hurt me all that much.

I don't see the point in arguing with you. Your comparison is ridiculous to begin with. I already suggested that you kick a tree instead, but you ignored that.

Go ahead and keep equating food consumption to dog kicking. I'm sure it makes perfect sense in your mind. My opinion is that you need help.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Absolutely.

You have as much need to eat meat as I have to kick a dog. I have survived the last 20 years on a vegetarian diet.

The reason the vast majority of people still eat meat is because THEY ENJOY IT, not because they have a physical need for it.

So if the case is you are killing animals for the enjoyment of it, why can't I kick a dog for the enjoyment of it?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't see the point in arguing with you. Your comparison is ridiculous to begin with. I already suggested that you kick a tree instead, but you ignored that.

Go ahead and keep equating food consumption to dog kicking. I'm sure it makes perfect sense in your mind. My opinion is that you need help.

Again another post just saying that my comparison is ridiculous without explaining why. "I'm not going to bother saying why I'm right and you are wrong. I'm just going to say you are crazy and need psychiatric help."

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

That's a very well thought out response. I appreciate the effort that you put into rebutting my point. I congratulate you on the brilliancy of this counter-point.

Ad-hominum attacks on the internet really, really don't hurt me all that much.

It depends on what kind of lifestyle one lives and the availability of resources. I was vegetarian for 4 years, and its much easier having a balanced diet with meat. I cant go back. Good on you for having the time and resources to prepare yourself well thought out meals for 20 years. i know i would simply use mytime and effort elsewhere.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Absolutely.

You have as much need to eat meat as I have to kick a dog. I have survived the last 20 years on a vegetarian diet.

The reason the vast majority of people still eat meat is because THEY ENJOY IT, not because they have a physical need for it.

So if the case is you are killing animals for the enjoyment of it, why can't I kick a dog for the enjoyment of it?

You are correct. I truly believe that.

I know I can survive on a sans-meat diet, and probably be more healthy for it. Further, but what I have learned from my religion by taking life I am not justifying my source of food.

But then again, it comes right back to your values and principles and everyone has different ones.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Absolutely.

You have as much need to eat meat as I have to kick a dog. I have survived the last 20 years on a vegetarian diet.

The reason the vast majority of people still eat meat is because THEY ENJOY IT, not because they have a physical need for it.

So if the case is you are killing animals for the enjoyment of it, why can't I kick a dog for the enjoyment of it?

Because, even though as you say killing for enjoyment there is at least some Benefit to eating meat.(whether you agree or not is moot). There is no benefit health wise kicking a dog or any animal for that matter. So really it isn't a fair comparison.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by krynski

It depends on what kind of lifestyle one lives and the availability of resources. I was vegetarian for 4 years, and its much easier having a balanced diet with meat. I cant go back. Good on you for having the time and resources to prepare yourself well thought out meals for 20 years. i know i would simply use mytime and effort elsewhere.

Thats the problem with western diets, it makes it exceedingly difficult to succeed as a vegetarian. I was a vegetarian for 6months and failed because the food available at the UofC was ####. But then, I look at my mom who eats punjabi food and the variety just never runs out.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Because, even though as you say killing for enjoyment there is at least some Benefit to eating meat.(whether you agree or not is moot). There is no benefit health wise kicking a dog or any animal for that matter. So really it isn't a fair comparison.

Eat an animal = taste bud excitement = release of endocrines

Kicking a dog = endocrine release and enjoyment

[Devils'Advocate]

There are many healthy vegetarians, so saying that you have to eat meat to be healthy doesn't seem to be true. Therefore, again, it comes down to you eat meat because you like the taste. Again, you ENJOY the taste. Most people could be just as healthy on a vegetarian diet, but don't out of choice of what makes them happy.

[Mister Yamoto]

Just a couple of questions

-Who pays for this? The scientists have determined that lobsters do not like being electrically shocked. Wow.

-Who boils live Lobsters? You kill it, clean it then steam it. Boiling the meat in the same pot as it's guts is an amateur way to do it. Also, believe it or not I have had good results microwaving lobster.

Animals can feel pain. Why is this studied? Why is this news?

[Red Potato Standing By]

Never said that, said there was health benefits to eating meat...
There are no health benefits to kicking animals.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

There are many healthy vegetarians, so saying that you have to eat meat to be healthy doesn't seem to be true. Therefore, again, it comes down to you eat meat because you like the taste. Again, you ENJOY the taste. Most people could be just as healthy on a vegetarian diet, but don't out of choice of what makes them happy.

But by not eating any meat you create a situation where some animals wouldnt exist. Cows and Pigs and Chickens arent pets they are food. So if there was no market for these animals they would cease to exist. So in my opinion the question comes down to suffering. Are animals essentially tortured for the weeks or year until they become food or are animals treated well have a reasonable life or at least a life better than not existing and then become food. From a utilitarian view does the net benifit of their life outweigh the suffering at the end. A key point to remember is they dont know whats going to happen to them so their is no dreading the day they head to the kill floor. We have to be careful not to assign human characteristics to them.

From an evolutionary stand point the cow, chicken and pig are incredibly successful at passing on their genetic mataterial. Their partnership with man as a food source has led to greater numbers of them then would be possible naturally. So as a vegetarian promoting that everyone could be a vegetarian are you comfortable that the end result of everyone being vegan is the extinction of the cow, chicken, goat, and pigs that are raised for meat.

I am a big fan of Pollans discussion in the omnivores dilemma on vegtarianism and the ethics of eating meat.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Iginla

I've been to slaughterhouses where that's not the practice. Some Jews and Muslims don't eat meat unless the cow has had their throat sliced to kill them.

And there are BIG slaughter houses dedicated to feeding that demand.

Ok.

Out of curiosity what do you define as big? What level of daily production? Where are these plants located? None of the major producers in NA do this.

[Thor]

Its the pain that makes them taste so delicious.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GGG

So as a vegetarian promoting that everyone could be a vegetarian are you comfortable that the end result of everyone being vegan is the extinction of the cow, chicken, goat, and pigs that are raised for meat.

There are wild turkeys running through Barrhaven, Ottawa. There are plenty of wild cows roaming through India. Wild boar throughout the world. The only things that would go extinct would be the tortured hormone-laden creatures that live lives of utter misery day in and day out. These genetic mutations that we call cows today are nothing like what nature intended and no, they are not suited to surviving in the wild... we've invented chickens that fall over because their chests are so large that their legs cannot support them. And I think letting those kind of chickens go extinct would be the most humane thing to do.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its the pain that makes them taste so delicious.

It's the pain that makes kicking my dog so enjoyable!

[moon]

Getting rid of delicious chicken wings would be one of the most inhumane things I think we could do.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

It's the pain that makes kicking my dog so enjoyable!

Having sex is enjoyable. So by logic we shouldn't eat meat, kick dogs or have sex.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

It's the pain that makes kicking my dog so enjoyable!

Bah. How do you feel about modern agricultural practices, without which, it would be impossible to feed the Earth's current and future population? Are pesticides, fertilizers, deforestation for farming space etc. necessary evils (not to mention genetically modified crops to allow hardier crop with extended growth cycles)? Are you really going to get all high and mighty about eating meat and ignore all the modern requirements for a vegetarian diet?

I recognize the arguments for using meat resources for purely agricultural means, but the holier than thou arguments of vegetarians is such hypocritical BS.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

It's the pain that makes kicking my dog so enjoyable!

Think your dog could take a lobster with a knife in a fight?