TSN says Flames 14th

[CaptainCrunch]

Who cares, personally I think this team is better talent wise then last year, and it comes down to Hartley doing a better job of taking advantage of that.

TSN is enamoured with the idea of diving for draft picks, if teams aren't drafting in the top 2 they're getting a rough ride.

I also think they are getting carried away with the whole youth movement thing, while failing to notice that teams like Edmonton, The Islanders and other bottom feeder teams tend to be bottom feeders long term.

While I think its more then likely that the Flames are a middle of the pack team, in a short season who knows.

Let them keep pooping on the Flames, if it gives them motivation, then thanks a lot

[Alberta_Beef]

Since the difference between 5th and 14th in the west probably won't be more than 10 points I really don't care about the predictions, its so close and the season is so short that any team that has a hot goaltender for an extended stretch could make the playoffs and any team with a medium to long rough patch could see them miss the playoffs.

[AC]

Since the start of last season:
Subtractions: Bourque, Hagman, Hannan, Jokinen, Kostopoulos, Moss.
Additions: Baertschi, Backlund, Cammalleri, Cervenka, Comeau, Hudler, Jones, Wideman.

I personally think we're vastly improved.

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Back2back2back2back first overall picks is my prediction for the Oilers, just my opinion.

Would be awesome for the oilers if they did finish last and pick Mckinnon because in two or three years they'vd have back2back2back2back stanley cups.

You'd need to be a blind fool not to recognize the level of talent on their team and in their organization. Only chance they have at the 1st overall pick will be through the lottery. Same as the Flames.

The Flames need.....

Iginla to continue to contribute more and more as he ages.
Kiprusoff has to play 46 games and be even better and not get hurt.
Hudler, Cervenka, Baertschi, Backlund need to prove they belong.
Hartley must prove he can coach a team that isn't an all star team.

My problem here is we have 4 BIG factors. The chances we hit a home run and go 4/4 aren't so great.

I'm not sold on Hartley. He was average with Atlanta and did well in Colorado when of course he had one of the best teams. History would tell me he doesn't do so well with fringe teams.

Between Hudler, Cervenka, Baertschi and Backlund I think only Backlund will be a success. I can see Baertschi putting up respectful numbers however I think Hudler is going to be Stajan #2.

My money is on that Cervenka doesn't even play a single game in a flames uniform.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by AC

Since the start of last season:
Subtractions: Bourque, Hagman, Hannan, Jokinen, Kostopoulos, Moss.
Additions: Baertschi, Backlund, Cammalleri, Cervenka, Comeau, Hudler, Jones, Wideman.

I personally think we're vastly improved.

In my opinion

Jokinen > Cammalleri (slightly)
Bourque = Hudler
Moss = Comeau
Hannan << Wideman
Kostopolous = Jones
Hagman < Cervenka (without even seeing him play)

So more or less it's just an upgrade on Hannan to Wideman and the addition of Baertschi. Outside of Sven, it's slightly better overall, but it's not a huge huge improvement in my opinion. However, Baertschi's presence in itself would be like adding a guy of a similar calibre as Tanguay or Cammalleri and that's not insignificant, but that was going to happen regardless of any other moves.

[magicpixels]

Everyone is really expecting too much of Baertschi. The more and more I hear everyone expects him to come in this year and score 15 goals. To expect him to play at the same level of Tanguay or Cammy is pretty unfair.

The big factor people aren't putting together is the two main stars are also a year older. They've made some modest improvements but it means nothing if the two stars can't keep it together.

[bubbsy]

hey, most publications have stated the flames will suck for a few seasons now. In the end, the flames did suck for the past few seasons now.

Now most years it's a total crapshoot for predictions (who thought the rebuilding sens would be a playoff team), but i think it's a fair guess-timation that the flames wont' be a powerhouse/playoff team in the ultra-competitive west.

No reason to get upset, or not cheer on the flames. there's enough change to warrant enthusiasm that perhaps this year will not be the same as the past few, and i am excited about that.

throw in the complete and untter unpredictability of a shortened season, and things get even more cloudy.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Everyone is really expecting too much of Baertschi. The more and more I hear everyone expects him to come in this year and score 15 goals. To expect him to play at the same level of Tanguay or Cammy is pretty unfair.

I want to show you something.
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=123700

Originally Posted by kmart

At least 30

Originally Posted by nik-

25-30 would be great, 20-25 is more realistic.

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Short season 27 pts

Originally Posted by Iginla

25-30 would be great. I expect him to have around 22 points.

Originally Posted by Ezio

27 pts is my prediction.

Originally Posted by Caged Great

44 along with winning the Calder

More realistically about 25.

Originally Posted by Nehkara

21p

Originally Posted by Prufrock

19g 14a 33pts

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I said 49 points for Sven over an 82 season

So i'll say 27.

Originally Posted by Flamenfame

8g 22a 30 pts he will get alot more apples than goals , i know he scored at a high pace in his short stint but he is more of a playmaker.

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

20-25 point range seems about right.

Originally Posted by casucks

18 points
8 goals, 10 assists

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

15-20.

Originally Posted by hkstylez

20 pts. More assists than goals.

Most people have him in the 20-25 point range.

I was hoping your ignorant trolling of the forum would stop after the lock out but it appears your the 2013 Calgarpuck version of Eklund. When the lock out ends, your BS still goes on.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

hey, most publications have stated the flames will suck for a few seasons now. In the end, the flames did suck for the past few seasons now.

Now most years it's a total crapshoot for predictions (who thought the rebuilding sens would be a playoff team), but i think it's a fair guess-timation that the flames wont' be a powerhouse/playoff team in the ultra-competitive west.

No reason to get upset, or not cheer on the flames. there's enough change to warrant enthusiasm that perhaps this year will not be the same as the past few, and i am excited about that.

throw in the complete and untter unpredictability of a shortened season, and things get even more cloudy.

Well I would say sucking is a matter of perspective. Missing the playoffs sucks no doubt about it but the Flames at least have played meaningful games right up until late March. The team always manages to have a .500+ record wich is more mediocre than outright sucking. These predictions mean nothing really and while I can't fault anyone for picking the Flames to miss the playoffs picking them to finish 14 is a little harsh considering there are a lot of teams with question marks like the Coyotes, Stars, Preds, Colorado, Aneheim who could all easily finish below the Flames. Time will tell.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Would be awesome for the oilers if they did finish last and pick Mckinnon because in two or three years they'vd have back2back2back2back stanley cups.

You'd need to be a blind fool not to recognize the level of talent on their team and in their organization. Only chance they have at the 1st overall pick will be through the lottery. Same as the Flames.

So, the theory you are promoting then is that success for an NHL teams comes via a multiplication of #1 draft picks. Is that right?

If so, I have serious problems with the theory. Basically, and like most things in sports, this idea suffers for variability: in other words, history shows that sometimes it works, but most often it does not. So far for their troubles the Oilers have turned three first-round draft picks into star players, but have very, VERY little to show for it beyond Eberle, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins. If this team is indeed a force to soon be reckoned with as you proclaim, then I would expect much more impressive results from their drafting in rounds 2–7. The Oilers have a few nice pieces, but practically nothing past the top line. I remain unconvinced that their strategy for success is a good one.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

The Flames need.....

Iginla to continue to contribute more and more as he ages.

I disagree. Rather on the contrary, I think the Flames need Iginla to be a top-line player this year, and he is certainly capable of that much. They don't need him to keep improving as he gets older, but I think the organisation is hoping that he is able to incrementally and gradually move down the depth chart as he ages, and as their younger players begin to emerge. This is a reasonable expectation, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Kiprusoff has to play 46 games and be even better and not get hurt.

In a shortened season Kiprusoff can and should be better. He is still one of the best goalies in the world, and his problem in recent years has been the toll taken by playing +70 games. Even if he does somehow play every game this season, which I think is highly unlikely, and just as unnecessary, he will still have played ALOT less than he has since the 2004 season by a wide margin. A pretty reasonable goal in my opinion.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Hudler, Cervenka, Baertschi, Backlund need to prove they belong.

"Belong" in what sense? On the top line? In the top-six? In the NHL? This is a nonsensical statement without much more clarification as to what you mean. I think that each player likely has something different to prove: E.g. for Baertschi, it is a place in the NHL; for Backlund, it is a place in the top-six. Without knowing what the coaches expect, or how they plan to use each of these players this season and into the near future, it is really difficult to make such a generalised measure for success as you have done, and apply it equally to all four of them.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Hartley must prove he can coach a team that isn't an all star team.

Well, he still is the only coach in Thrashers/Jets franchise history to coach that team in the playoffs, and only one of three coaches in franchise history to post a +.500 record. The sample size is fairly small, but it certainly qualifies to counter your assertion: Hartley's teams in Atlanta were far from All-Star quality, and I think that the Thrashers futility following his tenure actually speaks positively to his coaching abilities.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

My problem here is we have 4 BIG factors. The chances we hit a home run and go 4/4 aren't so great.

If the Flames hit 4/4 according to your measure, then I expect the result would likely be home-ice advantage in the playoffs.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

I'm not sold on Hartley. He was average with Atlanta and did well in Colorado when of course he had one of the best teams. History would tell me he doesn't do so well with fringe teams.

What is a "fringe" team? Is Hartley's sample-size really even large enough to make these sorts of conclusions? I'm not sure I'm "sold" on Hartley either, but there are a number of things that I like about what he is currently doing, and they provide me with a sense of optimism for the upcoming season. For one thing, I like what I hear about how he runs his practices; I like that he has Iginla working on the PK; I like that his own projection of self-confidence, and his infectious energy and charisma; I like that Martin Gelenis is a member of his coaching staff.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Between Hudler, Cervenka, Baertschi and Backlund I think only Backlund will be a success. I can see Baertschi putting up respectful numbers however I think Hudler is going to be Stajan #2.

Is this just your "gut", or do you have something quantifiable or rationally formulated to support your notion?

Originally Posted by magicpixels

My money is on that Cervenka doesn't even play a single game in a flames uniform.

Well, you are completely wrong about this. There is simply no other way to put it. Cervenka is at camp, and is currently penciled into the roster. The ONLY thing at this point that is preventing him from making the team is his medical status. As soon as he is cleared to play HE WILL PLAY. Whether he succeeds or not is another matter entirely, but there is absolutely no reason to expect that he will not play in Calgary this season.

As usual, your post is adventuresome and entertaining, but extremely light on actual facts and their sensible interpretation. Your opinion of things is very quickly developing into a sure measure of the opposite.

[madmike]

I'm fine with a prediction of 14th. At this point it's up to the Flames to prove the prognosticators wrong. The last few years they haven't done much to disprove the naysayers.

[Saqe]

Yeah why are people getting upset about a prediction I don´t get it. It´s probably just going to fire up the team and make them wanna show they are better than that. God knows what would happen if TSN had called this a playoff bound team- a team that has couple of big question marks at the moment.

[North East Goon]

This team has always been better in an under-dog role, hopefully this trend continues.

[LouCypher]

I like when they rate us this low, really agree with the underdog thing. It seems to be when this team really does its best, they just have to stay convinced that they are the underdog. I`m picking them to be anywhere from 5th-7th in the west but even worst case I still wouldn't have them lower then 10th-12th.

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by pylon

We would never be lucky enough to finish 14th. We will track all year, looking like we will, then go on some miracle run, to get us back into that 9-11 spot like we do every. single. year.

This x100!!

Too many if's on this team:

- if Iginla and Kipper can continue to carry the club while on the downward slope of their careers
- if the new additions like Hudler and Wideman play up to contracts and expectations
- if disappointments like Bouw and Stajan can rebound and play up to potential
- if the new coaching staff can make this team better
- if some of the younger players like Sven can step in and make a difference

Based on the last couple seasons I'd say we're right where we should be for projected finish - near the bottom. I'd love to be wrong, but I just don't see enough here to do otherwise

[edn88]

I don't like preseason rankings (actually I don't like rankings of any sort) - so I don't pay much attention to them. I hope the Flames pay attention to where they are ranked, and use it as ammunition to perform.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Mike F

For litmus testing, last year's TSN predictions w/ actual finish in brackets:

Projected Eastern Conference Standings

1. Washington (Southeast) (7)
2. Pittsburgh (Atlantic) (2)
3. Boston (Northeast) (4)
4. Philadelphia (3)
5. Tampa Bay (10)
6. Buffalo (9)
7. NY Rangers (1)
8. Montreal (15)

9. New Jersey (5)
10. Toronto (13)
11. Carolina (12)
12. Winnipeg (11)
13. NY Islanders (14)
14. Florida (6)
15. Ottawa (8)

Projected Western Conference Standings

1. Vancouver (Northwest) (1)
2. San Jose (Pacific) (7)
3. Chicago (Central) (5)
4. Detroit (4)
5. Los Angeles (8)
6. Anaheim (13)
7. St. Louis (2)
8. Nashville (3)

9. Calgary (9)
10. Dallas (10)
11. Phoenix (6)
12. Columbus (15)
13. Minnesota (12)
14. Edmonton (14)
15. Colorado (11)

Interesting to look at. I don't understand how Calgary moves down from 9th to 14th/15th in predictions when there's only good things to say about the team's improvements. The roster the Flames had when predictions were made last year were way worse than this year.

For guaranteed starters:
In: Cervenka, Cammalleri, Hudler, Wideman, Baertschi, Stempniak, Comeau, Jones
Out: Jokinen, Bourque, Moss, Hannan, Langkow, Kostopolous, Morrison, Hagman

The current year's team is far better IMO. I think these predictions are way off and all of their arguments seem to say Iginla and Kiprusoff are older... They are both still elite and Iginla has much more secondary scoring to help him out now.

[magicpixels]

Textcritic thank you for the laughs. Maybe you should look at things from an unbiased view point. Flames fans are always going to be bias with their own players.

Sure Iginla is a first line forward. You speak of him moving down the depth charts. The only problem with such a theory is we only have 1 single prospect at this moment that is capable of being a Top 6 guy. We have others that are going to possibilities but they are years away and even then have a higher risk of being absolute busts.

Your right Kipper has played 70 games in the past and he did so pretty well. However he's never before played 46 games in 92 nights. The scheduled is so condensed that creates a higher risk of injury and possibly wearing him out.

Hudler being Stajan #2? Really simple. He's a product of playing with superior players. When he's playing in Calgary he's expected to be the guy who gets things done. There are leaders and followers and Hudler is a follower.

Hartley guided a team that bought and spent as much as they could to achieve success. He was barely above 500 even in the worst division in hockey.

As for Cervenka his medical condition is pretty serious. He barely has clearance to be able to fly on an air plane let alone play in the NHL. The reason they are sending him to doctors in the US is desperate attempts to find a way to get him in.

Its just a lot of IFS. I'm not saying it all can't come together but it's a lot to hope on.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Keenan seems very confident Iggy will never leave Calgary

I dont think he will either. I'm not sure that is what is best for this club's future though.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Textcritic thank you for the laughs. Maybe you should look at things from an unbiased view point.

Textcritic is one of the best posters not only on this forum but most of the internet. He could take your point of view and make it better for you. His well reasoned well thought out posts are a breath of fresh are at times and when I read his posts bias rarely if ever creeps in. You aren't going to win anyone over going after Text.