In the FoTR when they went into Moria and it was totally trashed, was that a result of the clash we saw in Moria in The Hobbit?
Spoiler!
Ok big edit on this, if you want to know what happened follow this link, but be warned it talks of events that happen differently than what we saw in The Hobbit, I don't believe it will spoil any future story lines though
The war proved something of a pyrrhic victory, since while Thror was avenged the cost to the Dwarven race had been massive, and they remained exiled from Moria (due to the Balrog) and the Lonely Mountain (due to Smaug)
So it would appear as though the dwarves decided never to enter Moria because of the Balrog, and deemed it a lost cause. So they moved on and I am guessing that eventually Goblins moved in... because the guys they fought at the gates in The Hobbit were Orcs.. and in The Fellowship they fight Goblins.. Edit: OK again on this I am wrong as Tolkien seems to use the word Orc and Goblin interchangeably depending on the book.. I was under the impression that they were two different races..
After Gandalf defeats the Balrog in LOTR, and after the war of the ring, Moria is retaken by the dwarves.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Last edited by GreenLantern; 12-17-2012 at 10:32 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to GreenLantern For This Useful Post:
Looking over the reviews again, and it really seems like it's a film for fans... and I can respect that. I mean, I like the Star Trek world and enjoy the movies even if from a critical point of view, most are crap. A lot of reputable film critics are giving The Hobbit subpar reviews, not that it matters as the film probably wasn't made to please critics.
I personally couldn't get into the first films, although I typically like fantasy. I watched the first one and it seemed like there was a lot of build up but nothing much happened. I can't even remember the following 2. I don't think I saw them, but my wife is pretty sure that I did. I borrowed the DVDs from a friend though as I want to give it another spin. I am thinking that maybe I was pre-occupied the first time I saw them.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I haven't seen it yet and I doubt I will till it hits the cheap theater. Almost everybody that I've talked to has read the book beforehand and complained about this being left out and this being inserted. Plus they didn't like the 48 fps either. In addition they said it was too long. Jackson did do a lot of that with LOTR as well as in addition and subtraction so now I'm leery. Mainly I enjoyed LOTR for the actions scenes which were great but the movies did not = the book.
I'm thinking I'll enjoy the movies but at $5 it will be worth it for me.
I read The Hobbit nearly 8 years ago now so I don't remember all the details, but I thought the film was superb. I can't wait to see it again.
I loved the 48fps/3D combination, but I have to be honest - I can't really tell the difference or notice 48fps most of the time. I saw it in WestEd so I know it was one of the theatres that had it playing.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
I thought it was excellent. Opened with a bang and kept you interested for the whole movie. While I will agree there was a couple of scence that could have been left out, I didn't feel like any part dragged on.
Riddles in the Dark scence was excellent, very well done.
I do have a question though about one of the scenes
Spoiler!
In the FoTR when they went into Moria and it was totally trashed, was that a result of the clash we saw in Moria in The Hobbit?
Yes, to the spoiler.
__________________
Long time caller, first time listener
FYI: The Mines of Moria (Misty Mountains) from Fellowship is not the same place as the battle told in history at the beginning of The Hobbit; Erobor (Lonely Mountain). However, Bilbo found the ring somewhere in the Misty Mountians.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to YYC in LAX For This Useful Post:
I'll preface my comments by stating that I've never read any Tolkien at all, so all my knowledge of the canon and the LOTR universe is from the 3 Jackson movies.
My wife and I saw it in the high frame rate 3D yesterday, and we both absolutely hated the look of the film. You would think that the higher frame rate would make everything sharper, clearer and more realistic, but it has the opposite effect. The sets look fake and cheap, and the overall experience is closer to CGI than live film. I loved the look and feel of the 3 LOTR movies, but this one doesn't hold a candle in my opinion. It's not for the fans, it's to flex the massive ego behind the camera.
As to the content, the story was good, it was just way too slow. Jackson did a good job of telling the backstory for non-book fans, but even that only took 20 minutes. The pace was just slow as hell, and I found myself nodding off at times, which rarely happens to me in the theatre.
Overall, I came out very underwhelmed, but I attribute that in large part to the high frame rate. I think the technology is going to be very polarizing, people will either love or hate it. I'm not a fan of 3D to begin with (I hate wearing those idiotic glasses), and after seeing The Hobbit, I swore I wouldn't see another movie made this way.
FYI: The Mines of Moria (Misty Mountains) from Fellowship is not the same place as the battle told in history at the beginning of The Hobbit; Erobor (Lonely Mountain). However, Bilbo found the ring somewhere in the Misty Mountians.
Spoiler!
Yes and no, Moria is where the dwarves end up heading to after they lose Erobor. This is where the battle with Azog takes place and where Thorin gains his nick name.
I think that is the part he was curious about.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Is this new frame rate thing akin to when 120hz and 240hz TVs came out and every show looked like a soap opera? Because while it was weird at first, I got used to it pretty quickly and don't even notice it now.
I have to admit that the 48 fps and advanced CGI made it look like a cut scene in a video game. The story itself was AWESOME and the I have no qualms with the quality of the plot and the acting. It was all fantastic.
The sticking point, if there is one, is really down to the technical details. And maybe that's just because we're not used to such fluidity in advanced filmmaking.
Ok big edit on this, if you want to know what happened follow this link, but be warned it talks of events that happen differently than what we saw in The Hobbit, I don't believe it will spoil any future story lines though
So it would appear as though the dwarves decided never to enter Moria because of the Balrog, and deemed it a lost cause. So they moved on and I am guessing that eventually Goblins moved in... because the guys they fought at the gates in The Hobbit were Orcs.. and in The Fellowship they fight Goblins.. Edit: OK again on this I am wrong as Tolkien seems to use the word Orc and Goblin interchangeably depending on the book.. I was under the impression that they were two different races..
After Gandalf defeats the Balrog in LOTR, and after the war of the ring, Moria is retaken by the dwarves.
Interesting that Gimli (LotR) wasn't aware Moria had been desolated...trying to understand that. I know there were different phases in which the dwarves occupied Moria, but can't fully understand the timeline.
The book, obviously, is a children's classic. The film was just... god... horrible. Good thing Jackson is making three installments, so you guys can stand in line, and pay three times.
I will not only stand in line 3 times, but I will buy each version on Blueray, and again with the extended versions.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Azure For This Useful Post:
Interesting that Gimli (LotR) wasn't aware Moria had been desolated...trying to understand that. I know there were different phases in which the dwarves occupied Moria, but can't fully understand the timeline.
- The dwarves lived in Moria during ancient times but they dug too deep and found the Balrog.
- Because of the Balrog, the dwarves were forced to evacuate Moria and resettle in Erebor (which is later sacked by the dragon Smaug).
- After being driven from Erebor by Smaug, a group of dwarves try to re-take their former home of Moria which had since been occupied by orcs. This is the flashback battle scene from The Hobbit movie. The dwarves won the battle, but they lost too many and lacked the strength to face the Balrog, forcing them to abandon their plans of resettling in Moria.
- Some time between the events of The Hobbit and LOTR, the dwarf Balin (a cousin of Gimli and one of the 13 dwarves featured in The Hobbit book/film) led a group of dwarves to recapture Moria. They were initially successful at establishing a colony in Moria (hence why Gimli thought they would be greeted warmly), but their settlement was eventually destroyed by orcs, an event unknown to the outside world.
- After Gandalf defeated the Balrog, the dwarves were finally able to fully resettle Moria following the events of LOTR.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MarchHare For This Useful Post:
Thought it was slow, really didn't like the Azog or Radagast stuff.
I'd give it a 75/100, but feel it is generous and might not be that high for someone who isn't already a fan of the material. Probably still bitter that they are doing three films when I thought they could make a single dynamite movie if they just followed the book closely without any real changes.
- The dwarves lived in Moria during ancient times but they dug too deep and found the Balrog.
- Because of the Balrog, the dwarves were forced to evacuate Moria and resettle in Erebor (which is later sacked by the dragon Smaug).
- After being driven from Erebor by Smaug, a group of dwarves try to re-take their former home of Moria which had since been occupied by orcs. This is the flashback battle scene from The Hobbit movie. The dwarves won the battle, but they lost too many and lacked the strength to face the Balrog, forcing them to abandon their plans of resettling in Moria.
- Some time between the events of The Hobbit and LOTR, the dwarf Balin (a cousin of Gimli and one of the 13 dwarves featured in The Hobbit book/film) led a group of dwarves to recapture Moria. They were initially successful at establishing a colony in Moria (hence why Gimli thought they would be greeted warmly), but their settlement was eventually destroyed by orcs, an event unknown to the outside world.
- After Gandalf defeated the Balrog, the dwarves were finally able to fully resettle Moria following the events of LOTR.
Came here to post that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
The book, obviously, is a children's classic. The film was just... god... horrible. Good thing Jackson is making three installments, so you guys can stand in line, and pay three times.
My favorite part is when you nevertheless went to the movie on opening day.
As for the movie, rewatched some of the 70s RankinBass animation recently, and am always struck how much of that stuff is echoed by Jackson's movies. Wouldn't be suprised to find out he has watched them a time or two.
I'm thinking that the 48 fps is going to be divisive. I really enjoyed it and a lot of other people did too but there seem to be lots who didn't care for it.
__________________
Huge thanks to Dion for the signature!
For the love of god don't see this movie in 48 FPS 3D.
While some of the movie looks really good in it, some of it looks just absolutely terrible. I have no idea how people can think this technology looks good. Some of the scenes, like where Bilbo is in his house, looks like it is on fast forward.
Ozy, don't discount yourself for not being used to this. It's not because it is super fluid, it's unnatural. Voodooman is right on a lot of the points about 48 FPS. Some of the scenes do look like a CGI cut scene from a video game.
I definitely want to see what this looks like in 24 FPS standard.
The film itself was 8/10 though, really enjoyed it. Some scenes did drag on and they could have cut 20-30 minutes easily.
Last edited by 3 Justin 3; 12-17-2012 at 11:47 PM.
I don't really understand the 48 FPS thing either. I'm sure it's been discussed to death in this thread... but it just makes everything look really fake.
