2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[jschick88]

John Perrotto: Baseball writer for USA Today

Am told #BlueJays will not give up Travis d'Arnaud in any trade with #Mets for R.A. Dickey.

https://twitter.com/jperrotto

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by moon

That's because he is worth considerably less than a real #1- Cy Young candidate.

I think teams have had plenty of chances to bring guys of Dickey's talent to their team.

Plenty of chances? Who are these players that teams have had the chance to get?

The fact that he's only due to make 5 million next year gives him a ton of value. He also has much more on his side to say he will continue to succeed then he will falter.

[TitovFTW]

It'll be easy to tell if the trade happens, have the twitter tab up at the top, and it's incredible how when big sports news breaks, suddenly the (1) counting the amount of tweets next to Twitter goes from 3-5 to 15-20-30 so quickly.

[moon]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Plenty of chances? Who are these players that teams have had the chance to get?

The fact that he's only due to make 5 million next year gives him a ton of value. He also has much more on his side to say he will continue to succeed then he will falter.

This year alone I would say Greinke and Sanchez.

From past guys that have been available CJ Wilson, CC Sabathia, Johan Santana, James Shields, Matt Garza. I am sure there are more that I can't think of.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by jschick88

John Perrotto: Baseball writer for USA Today

Am told #BlueJays will not give up Travis d'Arnaud in any trade with #Mets for R.A. Dickey.

https://twitter.com/jperrotto

Thank goodness AA never got too high on himself and is counting him off-limits. Although the James Shields deal was pretty lopsided, I think that sets the bar pretty high in these deals where team now think they can get something near that amount. I can see JPA and Gose going all things considered. I really would not be happy with Gose going, but if Lind is being packaged too, along with a 2 year contract extension being signed with Dickey, maybe this deal becomes a little more digestable. If not, call the Mets bluff and hope to get the guy next season if they're so inclined to do so. Again, the Shields deal, I think drove up the price of 3rd starters.

[jschick88]

travis d'arnaud was heavily discussed w/ toronto as well as arencibia. hearing #mets may be landing d'arnaud. unconfirmed
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS

Please NO!!

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by moon

This year alone I would say Greinke and Sanchez.

From past guys that have been available CJ Wilson, CC Sabathia, Johan Santana, James Shields, Matt Garza. I am sure there are more that I can't think of.

Shields, Garza, Sanchez are all not number one guys, also the fact that Garza was never traded from the Cubs. Then you listed two free agents from a very long time ago and CJ Wilson. James Shields was the only player actually traded and Santana 4 years ago.

I suggest you go back and read my original post and see that I was talking about the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays still have a tough time attracting free agents, it was even harder when Sabathia, CJ Wilson exc. were free agents as the Jays really had nothing to offer these free agents to come here. Not just the fact they didn't have the money but a different country and a weak team. The Jays cannot match the Rangers, Angels and Dodgers of the world right now when it comes to big name free agents. They do have a great minor league system which allows them to be ahead of the game as compared to those teams. In the last 5 years, the number of #1 pitchers that have been traded is incredibly small.

So as I stated in my previous post which was Blue Jay specific,

Here's the thing for the Bluejays. How many chances do you get to bring a pitcher of this talent to your team?

Which I then went on to detail how he wouldn't cost as much money as a #1, you wouldn't have to sign him for 5-6 years and have a bad contract handicap you.

[TitovFTW]

Sounds like no trade is going to happen tonight, chance it might go through on Saturday morning. The D'arnaud Heymen tweet just sounds like wild speculation.

[jschick88]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Sounds like no trade is going to happen tonight, chance it might go through on Saturday morning. The D'arnaud Heymen tweet just sounds like wild speculation.

Really hope so. If the asking price is TDA I hope AA has enough sense to walk away.

[jschick88]

If TDA is involved in a trade to the Mets I would think we would be getting more back than just Dickey. Could be a multiple player swap.

[TitovFTW]

And now of course there's 5-6 tweets that say D'Arnaud is in play, only because Heyman went from a source that said he had a "gut feeling"

[moon]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Shields, Garza, Sanchez are all not number one guys, also the fact that Garza was never traded from the Cubs. Then you listed two free agents from a very long time ago and CJ Wilson. James Shields was the only player actually traded and Santana 4 years ago.

I don't think Dickey is a number one guy either. Garza was traded at one point so was available.

I just listed guys who have been available recently didn't realize it was only from this year you wanted.

[The Big Chill]

I really hope we walk away before we include TDA in the deal. JPA and Gose is about as much as I'd be willing to give, and it took me a while to even be comfortable with that.

I'd rather go with Carlos V (or someone similar) and Happ as our 5/6th starters then give up TDA and Gose.

Edit: Carlos, not Charlie. Bad Raptors flashback there.

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't think Dickey is a number one guy either. Garza was traded at one point so was available.

I just listed guys who have been available recently didn't realize it was only from this year you wanted.

I was just making note that of all the guys you listed, Greinke, Sabathia, Santana were the only #1 pitchers who could be considered Aces and the 3 of them are spaced out over a long period of time. A #1 pitcher becomes available if you're lucky, once every year and a half.

I think it's hard to argue that Dickey is not a #1 guy right now, over the last 3 seasons he's been just that. He is not a sure thing, but there's really nothing out there that would suggest he is going to regress. There's more then a big enough sample size with knuckle ball pitchers that show us they last much longer then a normal pitcher, and don't see a decline, even in these later years. There's really nothing in his advanced statistics that hint at a regress or that batters figured him out and all. Even a switch to a stronger division would have a pretty minimal effect.

[TitovFTW]

If it takes D'arnaud, it takes D'arnaud. You only get a small number of chances to be a great team.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I really hope we walk away before we include TDA in the deal. JPA and Gose is about as much as I'd be willing to give, and it took me a while to even be comfortable with that.

I'd rather go with Charlie V (or someone similar) and Happ as our 5/6th starters then give up TDA and Gose.

I'm not really big on giving up Gose for Dickey either

[TitovFTW]

Andy Martino ‏@MartinoNYDN Want to repeat 1 thing reported earlier, because important here. 2 people involved in this tell me Dickey will do extension w TOR if traded

[moon]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

I think it's hard to argue that Dickey is not a #1 guy right now, over the last 3 seasons he's been just that.

Last year he was but not sure about the other years and certainly not any time before when he sucked.

He is not a sure thing, but there's really nothing out there that would suggest he is going to regress. There's more then a big enough sample size with knuckle ball pitchers that show us they last much longer then a normal pitcher, and don't see a decline, even in these later years. There's really nothing in his advanced statistics that hint at a regress or that batters figured him out and all. Even a switch to a stronger division would have a pretty minimal effect.

Not really a fan of knuckleballers all that much and a lot of reason guys haven;t fallen off is that they haven't been that good (recent guys).

Just not that much to indicate that Dickey will replicate his year from last year or that he is that good of a pitcher.

[jschick88]

NA Titov beat me to it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm not really big on giving up Gose for Dickey either

Unless Gose miraculously figures out some way to get on base I wouldn't worry too much about him and he has shown no indication that he will.