Deerfoot Trail problems - Ideas, solutions?

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Why are these strugglers slowing down? That is the problem with traffic flow on Deerfoot, timid and scared drivers.

Because they would rather not smash into the car in front of them? Because they know there is a stupid red light at the top of the exit ramp they are about to hit doing 90?

Just throwing random ideas out there...

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

So basically you're saying reduce the speed to 80?

Yup, you summed up my post perfectly!

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by psicodude

Because they would rather not smash into the car in front of them? Because they know there is a stupid red light at the top of the exit ramp they are about to hit doing 90?

Just throwing random ideas out there...

Deerfoot was designed for 100km/hr exits and entrances. I agree any interchange with lights is a poor excuse for an interchange.

Care to explain how the left lane is the slowest lane on the road during rush hour if it isn't a driver/skill issue?

[zamler]

The left lane is slow because of a-hole drivers that try and beat the traffic, and end trying to force their way into the right lanes, mangling up the whole works.

[normtwofinger]

How about making the far right lane a maximum of 80km/h and trucks must use that lane? The other lanes could be 100km/h.

[Joborule]

For those short merge interchanges (pretty much all of them), couldn't the building of collector lanes be a possible fix? Because as long as those short merges exist, there's always gonna be the chance it effs up the flow of all lanes.

If there were express lanes and collector lanes, like the SW portion of the Ring Road will have in the long term, this could help the flow during heavy usage periods along with the necessary interchange improvements.

[para transit fellow]

The traffic naturally slows with volume, but there is always some yokels that insist on breaking the sound barrier or otherwise refuses to "go with the flow" for a mere ten minutes-- and then we have a fender bender and resulting snarls.

Maybe we need some sort of volume adjusted speed limit. At certain traffic flows, the speed drops to 90, then to 80, (don't know about 70). We get folks to slow down in tight traffic and get a consistant flow that makes merging into tight traffic possible.

But working together isn't exactly natural for most drivers.

[normtwofinger]

We should all take driving lessons in Beijing. Talk about working together.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Joborule

For those short merge interchanges (pretty much all of them), couldn't the building of collector lanes be a possible fix?

Heck yes that's a fix... but better get your bulldozer out to fit them if you're looking at the same Deerfoot Trail that I am.

[EVERLAST]

left lane toll lane with no speed limit road rage and smash em up derby driver accepted

[Wormius]

The thing about the driving in some other countries is, sure the traffic is moving, but on average nowhere near as fast as North American traffic on a good stretch. Chinese traffic is constantly moving, but it is slow.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

How about making the far right lane a maximum of 80km/h and trucks must use that lane? The other lanes could be 100km/h.

Would be a fantastic way to cause more crashes and congestion. Also, the guy behind you in the middle lane won't be too impressed when you hit the brakes to get down to 80 so you can change into that lane to exit.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Why are these strugglers slowing down? That is the problem with traffic flow on Deerfoot, timid and scared drivers.

Exactly.

Unless there is extreme traffic (in which case, going 100km/h is out of the question anyway), the acceleration lanes are long enough for anyone to safely get up to 100km/h before they need to merge onto Deerfoot and the deceleration lanes are long enough to safely get from 100km/h to the speed of the cross-road.

Unfortunately, there are enough drivers who are either too timid, too scared, too stupid, or simply too unskilled to properly utilize the acceleration and deceleration lanes, that they either slow down too early or get up to speed too late that it screws things up for everyone.


For example, coming from 16th onto northbound Deerfoot, if you're going at least 100 when you hit the dotted line, there's no problem because everyone can make the required lane changes at freeway speed.

Where the problems occur is when the person at the front of the pack is only going 60 when they hit the dotted line, and there's about a half dozen vehicles stacked up behind them. In that case, people on Deerfoot who want to go to 32nd have to slam on their brakes to get down to the 60km/h that the traffic in that lane is moving, which in turn slows down the right lane on Deerfoot. Then, you also have all the people who are stuck going 60 behind that idiot try to get around him which causes additional dangerous lane changes.

[Wormius]

So why not just close some of the exits off of Deerfoot? 32nd and 64th are unnecessary, and can be accessed lots of other ways. Memorial is debatable, since its already close enough to 16th Ave, that people could get there way over there.

[ken0042]

I get your idea Wormius; closing every 2nd exit. However Memorial is a major route into the core.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So why not just close some of the exits off of Deerfoot? 32nd and 64th are unnecessary, and can be accessed lots of other ways. Memorial is debatable, since its already close enough to 16th Ave, that people could get there way over there.

It's a good idea in theory, but the "lots of other ways" are already parking lots.

Did you just suggest offloading Memorial traffic to 16th? To get into the core how... down Centre and Edmonton Trail? Or exit Deerfoot to 17 Ave then north Barlow to get across? Causes far more problems than it solves. The 16 Ave/Deerfoot interchange is already a horrific junction for 2 roads of this magnitude.

Closing 32nd is not an option unless you spend a whole lot of money and fix McKnight, which is a perpetual parking lot.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I get your idea Wormius; closing every 2nd exit. However Memorial is a major route into the core.

Oops. I forgot about that for some reason, despite using that route quite frequently to get downtown, myself.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Wormius

32nd and 64th are unnecessary.

Apparently you haven't seen 32nd's ramps backing up with traffic onto Deerfoot during rush hour.

As a side note, I found a traffic study done in 2010 for Stoney Trail, and two of the highest regional trip pairs was Trans Canada (NE) - Highway 2, and Highway 2 - 17th Avenue (SE). That's a minimum of a few thousand vehicles (mostly trucks) per day taken off Deerfoot in the North, only 6 months after the NE section of Stoney opened. I'd be curious what the 2012 numbers are, and what effect the opening of the SE section will have on these trip pair numbers.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Apparently you haven't seen 32nd's ramps backing up with traffic onto Deerfoot during rush hour.

As a side note, I found a traffic study done in 2010 for Stoney Trail, and two of the highest regional trip pairs was Trans Canada - Highway 2, and Highway 2 - 17th Avenue. That's a minimum of a few thousand cars per day taken off Deerfoot in the North, only 6 months after the NE section of Stoney opened. I'd be curious what the 2012 numbers are, and what effect the opening of the SE section will have on these trip pair numbers.

I think it's a possibility that 32nd Ave could be converted into just a flyover, but it would require massive improvements at both 16th Ave and McKnight.

Obviously, 17th, Memorial, and 16th Are all major roads, and no accesses could be removed. All three could really use some upgrades. Between 17th and Memorial needs crossover ramps on both sides.

64th Ave could conceivably be converted to a flyover, but that would certainly require a full connection of Beddington Trail and 11th Street, with full ramps to ramps to Deerfoot.

Perhaps Southland could be removed if Blackfoot connected to the Bow Bottom/Anderson/Deerfoot Interchange somehow.

[Travis Munroe]

I wonder if some sort of system which kept left lane users in that lane for extended periods of times would work. Example, there is a half km opening going south at memorial for downtown users to get into the left lane if they wish. after the half km opening, something similar to those tall skinny pylons force the driver to stay in that lane until just after the anderson exit. At this point, everything opens up naturally as it would with the current structure.
All large trucks also banned from using this lane.
It seems to me this would keep at least 1 lane moving and give those people heading south a "easy lane" without having cars cut in and out of whatever lane appears to be moving fastest at the time. It would also filter out all the south traffic from the other 2 lanes which will allow for easier exits before anderson.