Deerfoot Trail problems - Ideas, solutions?

[Mazrim]

$400 million for one interchange? Where are these fantastic estimates coming from?

I fail to see how one interchange on Deerfoot would cost more than the entire Glenmore Causeway upgrades from Crowchild to Macleod.

[ken0042]

At a Ring Road open house, the main Alberta Transportation dude said that the Glnmore project would be in the $100M range, and the Southland/Anderson/Bow Bottom project would be in the $200M range. He said those were completely estimates on his part; I was trying to get an idea on the scope.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why Deerfoot and Glenmore hasn't been rectified is simply unacceptable. The one major North-South road in the city and it inexplicably shrinks by two lanes at one of the busiest parts? A complete joke in planning.

I remember it being 3 lanes across each way. With the volume of traffic getting onto Deerfoot, sometime in the 90's IIRC they sacrificed two of the lanes to make a dedicated merge for EB Glenmore traffic to NB Deerfoot, and to make the merge from SB Deerfoot to EB GLenmore / WB Glenmore to SB Deerfoot a heck of a lot safer, as the bridge design did not have the capacity for proper merges. A bandaid solution at best, which now causes other issues.

[REDVAN]

I have a few points.

1) I live in Glenbrook, and some good friends in Skyview Ranch. Takes 25-30 minutes, in rush hour, to take Stoney pretty much all the way there. It tales way longer on Deerfoot, so I don't understand why I am practically the only one on Stoney during that time.

2) The only way to fix Deerfoot will be to completely close it once Stoney is complete. This requires a SW portion, and will be a long time away. But I believe Deerfoot could be widened and fixed if closed for a year. The city would be crippled for that time, but I think it'd be worth it.

3) Once the ring road is complete, it should be mandatory for trucks (ie/ ones not stopping in town) to use the ring road bypass. That means we'll get that off the road at least.

4) As a final solution, a giant wall down the middle of Deerfoot would be good, so that we can block at least half the rubbernecking.

[getbak]

What is the status of the Glenmore interchange improvements?

According to the province's information site, construction was supposed to start in late 2009: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/glengp.htm

Three years past that date, we're obviously not any closer.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by getbak

What is the status of the Glenmore interchange improvements?

According to the province's information site, construction was supposed to start in late 2009: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/glengp.htm

Three years past that date, we're obviously not any closer.

You might have already guessed it but...they're probably waiting on a certain agreement to be sorted out before moving ahead...

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by getbak

What is the status of the Glenmore interchange improvements?

I believe it was held off pending the SE Ring Road opening. As it will be a major traffic nightmare for 2+ years; waiting allows a lot of the N-S traffic to be able to bypass Deerfoot all together.

[Madman]

Other than the blatant Glenmore changes mentioned earlier:

Tear out the Southland Dr overpass - too close to Anderson in both directions causes a major cluster-fata.

Blow up the Lafarge plant and have the Ivor Strong bridge go over the Bow in much less severe angle.

[psicodude]

The only way to really fix the problem is to do a major overhaul which includes a collector lane system. The number of on-and-off ramps is the primary source of issues and nothing short of reducing the number of them will help. I also agree with others that simply adding lanes is not a long term solution. A multi tiered approach including mass transit and controlling the sprawl is required.

[Rerun]

I say its about time for the flying car. That'll relieve the Deerfoot congestion.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I say its about time for the flying car. That'll relieve the Deerfoot congestion.

People have enough problems driving in two dimensions. Can you imagine what a mess three dimensional traffic would be?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

$400 million for one interchange? Where are these fantastic estimates coming from?

I fail to see how one interchange on Deerfoot would cost more than the entire Glenmore Causeway upgrades from Crowchild to Macleod.

Spoiler!

Enough said. I may have overly simplified my estimates, but when I said "properly fix" Deerfoot...

Originally Posted by psicodude

The only way to really fix the problem is to do a major overhaul which includes a collector lane system.

Originally Posted by Madman

Blow up the Lafarge plant and have the Ivor Strong bridge go over the Bow in much less severe angle.

For example, if they were to get real serious, it'd involve things like this, i.e. massive land acquisition and massive cost.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by getbak

People have enough problems driving in two dimensions. Can you imagine what a mess three dimensional traffic would be?

Lol, it would be bloodshed. Those things would be falling out of the skies daily. Flying cars is such a far fetched dream.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Having driven on 3 different continents, there is no doubt that fault exists with our beloved Deerfoot Trail and some of its quirks, but I'm still amazed at 2pm and other times of low volume, with perfect weather conditions, I see people doing 90KMH in the inside lanes and when entering it from merging ramps, doing so with as little acceleration as possible - love the guys trying to merge over doing 75KMPH! (and wanting the safe middle lane).

There should be 4 people in Calgary handing out pass or fail after a drivers exam and "defensive driving" has become the death of efficient and yet still safe driving practices. If you have been to Thailand and especially Vietnam, you see 20x the volume on smaller roads moving much more effectively especially when the total number of people on the road is considered.

I remember 15+ years ago, someone from EU observing the Deerfoot saying that if we increased our speed limit by 15kmph or more (and enforced it) it would be 3x more efficient. Today, most are afraid to crest the 100k mark.

[skudr248]

^ totally agree, just came back from Europe, and it's amazing how ######ed many Calgarian's are when it comes to merge of/merge in lanes, everytime, I look at my speedo and were doing ~70 give or take... dahh phuck? AND THIS IS WHERE I SEE MOST OF THE ACCIDENTS HAPPEN! and even where I see many close-calls.. EVERYDAY. I end up driving in the fast very far left lane, then just before the turn of, I safely change across all lanes into my exit because of all close call's I see, it's amazing, and people think deerfoot is scary, pfff trying driving from Nice, France to Milan, Italy, now that was some scary stuff, avg speed 200km with policia passing at night, in the dark... the drive back is even worse, windy roads, only 2 lanes, difference is people actually know how to drive there

[stampsx2]

What's the best thing to do when someone merges onto deerfoot, goes 80 km/h and continues at that speed because they're texting? Honking doesn't seem to be enough.

[Madman]

Don't let them in, force them to slam on their brakes or hope they drive off the road into a light standard?

[psicodude]

You guys claiming that the merging speed of drivers is the primary issue with Deerfoot are really over-stating how busy some of these other freeways are. The AADT (Average Annual Daily Traffic) for the busiest section of Deerfoot was 170k 5 years ago. While I can't find a definitive list, the "accepted" busiest freeway sections in the world are the 401 in Toronto and the East LA interchange which are both around the 500k mark. There are likely worse freeways in the world (the Tietê Freeway in Sao Paulo) but they don't collect this type of data. Even so, there is a finite number of cars that can occupy a lane, and it is nowhere near 20 times that of Deerfoot. To achieve those types of numbers, you would require a freeway with 30+ lanes.

The problem is obvious - Deerfoot was designed to carry about half of the vehicles it does today. The interchanges are too close to each other resulting is the scary as hell weave zones that cause congestion and accidents. Simply merging into traffic at a higher rate of speed is not feasible because there are other cars in your way trying to slow down to make their off-ramp.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by psicodude

You guys claiming that the merging speed of drivers is the primary issue with Deerfoot are really over-stating how busy some of these other freeways are. The AADT (Average Annual Daily Traffic) for the busiest section of Deerfoot was 170k 5 years ago. While I can't find a definitive list, the "accepted" busiest freeway sections in the world are the 401 in Toronto and the East LA interchange which are both around the 500k mark. There are likely worse freeways in the world (the Tietê Freeway in Sao Paulo) but they don't collect this type of data. Even so, there is a finite number of cars that can occupy a lane, and it is nowhere near 20 times that of Deerfoot. To achieve those types of numbers, you would require a freeway with 30+ lanes.

The problem is obvious - Deerfoot was designed to carry about half of the vehicles it does today. The interchanges are too close to each other resulting is the scary as hell weave zones that cause congestion and accidents. Simply merging into traffic at a higher rate of speed is not feasible because there are other cars in your way trying to slow down to make their off-ramp.

Why are these strugglers slowing down? That is the problem with traffic flow on Deerfoot, timid and scared drivers.

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by psicodude

You guys claiming that the merging speed of drivers is the primary issue with Deerfoot are really over-stating how busy some of these other freeways are. The AADT (Average Annual Daily Traffic) for the busiest section of Deerfoot was 170k 5 years ago. While I can't find a definitive list, the "accepted" busiest freeway sections in the world are the 401 in Toronto and the East LA interchange which are both around the 500k mark. There are likely worse freeways in the world (the Tietê Freeway in Sao Paulo) but they don't collect this type of data. Even so, there is a finite number of cars that can occupy a lane, and it is nowhere near 20 times that of Deerfoot. To achieve those types of numbers, you would require a freeway with 30+ lanes.

The problem is obvious - Deerfoot was designed to carry about half of the vehicles it does today. The interchanges are too close to each other resulting is the scary as hell weave zones that cause congestion and accidents. Simply merging into traffic at a higher rate of speed is not feasible because there are other cars in your way trying to slow down to make their off-ramp.

So basically you're saying reduce the speed to 80?