You're aware they nerfed the LoH and Fury gained of Sprint by 60% right?
If perhaps you haven't played tornado barb that doesn't mean much to you but it's a very significant nerf. What had made the tornado barb so efficient was the ability to keep Wrath of the Berserker up for upwards of 100% of the time. The way to keep it up is simply very high fury gain, the main fury generation being that from sprint. Reducing it by 60% requires very high crit hit rate and attack speed to keep WotB up for extended periods of time now. At the same time for a large portion of ww barbs their survivability has depended on the LoH as you need high DPS for life steal to become viable and even then there's a 9% limit (I think) which means they'll also need to target all resistance and high vitality to keep their survivability the same as pre-patch.
So really now barbs need high crit chance/attack speed/dps(strength and crit damage)/resistance/life steal and vitality to remain the relatively same efficiency. The barbs with that have gear that cost 100's of millions of gold, and any class with 100's of millions of gold worth of gear is efficient. (well maybe I'll grant you monks...)
Now of course because barbs were OP there were a lot able to farm and get the gold required to get great gear so you're still going to see a lot of WW barbs tearing #### up but you can't pretend like they haven't taken a step in balancing barbs (probably not a big enough one but another step in the right direction).
Also I was a barb in 1.01 and 1.02 so no Wizards or Demon Hunters should be crying about imbalance
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 10-12-2012 at 03:25 PM.
This vid from Moldran showing his barb going through an Alkaizer (first guy to hit Paragon 100) route had me shaking my head. Fast forward to where he calculates the experience gained and it is a whopping 63 million PER HOUR!!!.... and not even a hint of him in trouble at any point.
First, I never said Tornado Barbs aren't OP. But the biggest issue however was how relatively weak gear could get you started, that was the problem when you could grab 200K worth of gear and put it on a barb and be just as effective as a multimillionaire Witch Doctor.
Second, Moldran is an extremely end game geared barb. You can't compare him to just a random. If you had a similar geared Demon Hunter video you would see that they can be pretty much just as a effective. Don't forget that the race to 100 was between Alkaizer and Ingak a Demon Hunter which means Demon Hunters were capable of getting that whopping 63M exp/hour as well. Alkaizer broke away when Ingak really gave up, but that was probably closer to the brute force in that Alkaizer was playing sometimes up to 20 hours a day.
And yeah you can point to the discrepancy between classes at level 100 but that problem with that is again a lot of lower level "poor' players did switch to barbs and then ended up getting rich enough for 1.05 to get that end game gear. Also the reason I swapped to Tornado barb was because it was a fun play style, and natural a fun and efficient build will have a lot more players.
So now 1.05 is somewhat addressing it, not perfectly, but end game characters are still end game characters comparing them to anything but is unfair. Now the low level Tornado barbs have had their efficiency reduced, they'll either have to die more (assuming same monster level as 1.04), keep WotB up less or lose DPS. A step in the right direction.
I'd say they should still reduce tornado damage a bit, and the easiest way for that would take into consideration the offhand damage of the weapons but I'm sure they're hesitant on that when for awhile now players have been spending big money on 400 damage weapons with a socket, 100% crit rate, life steal, life on hit and strength.
Not only are WW barbs OP, the discrepancy is simply ridiculously huge. Barbs can out-tank and out-dps every other character. Barbs are killing stuff by running past them, for pete's sake. Not tanking (and sacrificing damage) or kiting from 2 screens away (and sacrificing survivability).
This nerf reduces the discrepancy (barbs only 2 miles ahead of everyone else rather than 3 miles ahead) but doesn't change the fact that on a same budget, barb will outperfom any other char, 10 times out of 10. Not to mention they don't compete for their gear with anyone else (fact I find ridiculous). DHs are snapping up monk gear, WD snapping up wiz gear...
Speaking of nerfs, 60% nerf seems huge. But only till you compare it to Caltrops nerf TO ZERO. Not reduced, REMOVED.
Or when you compare it to ET procs reduced from 0.5 to 0.125. Whats the % reduction there? I'm no mathematician but seems to me it's higher than the 60% barbs suffered.
So now 1.05 is somewhat addressing it, not perfectly, but end game characters are still end game characters comparing them to anything but is unfair. Now the low level Tornado barbs have had their efficiency reduced, they'll either have to die more (assuming same monster level as 1.04), keep WotB up less or lose DPS. A step in the right direction.
Speaking of this...as a CM wiz I need to stack all res, LOH, crit chance and IAS on top of primary stats. I can FORGET about adding damage via critical damage. I need to stack AR LOH CC and IAS in every slot, and if I wanted to add CD on top of that, prices would skyrocket to the 100mil+ per slot range. I have 17 crit dmg on a ring, that's it. No choice there.
I need all these stats so I can pump out weak ass twister who costs you arm and leg in arcane power and does eff all damage. The only thing it's good for is it resets cooldowns IF I pump out bazillions twisters (IAS above 2.2 roughly needed to do that efficiently) Now after the nerf, what exactly is ET good for? I doesn't do damage, it cost huge amount of resources and barely procs. Piss poor skill design.
Okay so we all agree Tornado barbs are OP, hence the nerfs.
But you said they buffed barbs, a pretty laughable statement which I addressed. Is the nerf enough? Absolutely not, at least not until they address WotB's immunity to pretty much all non-elemental affixes.
Until then, it's Barb's time to shrine. You wizards had from release to 1.04, while us Barbs had to wait months before we were allowed to see level 61 gear drop remember .
I think the next patch is going live tomorrow. Server downtown for tomorrow is 8 hours, which is longer than usual.
Yeah, I would suggest getting rid of your Leoric's Signet if you have it still. Hellfire Rings don't really take long to farm. No clue at all what Leoric's cost now but if it's still in the 8 digits anyone who can afford that can farm a ring relatively simply.
Edit: Also farming Leoric's should be easier as you can go MP10 in Normal and get the added MF bonus while searching so I would think they'll lose their value pretty quickly.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 10-15-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Yeah, I would suggest getting rid of your Leoric's Signet if you have it still. Hellfire Rings don't really take long to farm. No clue at all what Leoric's cost now but if it's still in the 8 digits anyone who can afford that can farm a ring relatively simply.
Good call. I'll post it when I'm home.
Signet sold. Pocketed $40 mill off it.
Last edited by Flaming Choy; 10-15-2012 at 03:38 PM.
100k really is nothing in the big scheme of things, but if it is a good weapon, has a good + to exp or a good level reduction, it is totally worth it to spend on a lower level item.
Plus you can turn around and sell it pretty much for what you paid for it, or pass it to your next character.
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Yeah, 100k is nothing, just a small consolation prize for not finding Leorics
Any of you guys gambling on the gold price movement? Personally I don't buy/sell gold, I'm just hoping for the market to crash (esp jewellery). I don't play often to realistically expect finding godly loot so market crash is good for me.
Well see whether Blizz mass-bans botters or not, if botters lose their stash gold can reach $1 levels again.
When 1.04 first came out I got Zunimassa's Trail off the very first elite I killed that patch a couple minutes in.
In a nice coincidence I found another pair of Zunimassa's Trail literally 10 seconds into playing 1.05 from a normal demonic vessel. Super low Int roll but rolled All Resistance and Armor for it's random properties so could be worth something.
Anyone do the Ubers yet? I'm assuming if you can handle the keywardens at whatever MP, the ubers should be ok too?
Probably depends on the party, if you're soloing I think maybe find a level where you can do Act 3 Warden comfortably without dieing at all and try with that level.
Last night we had a party of 4 and 3 of us with a set of keys, we did MP 6 I believe and one of the guys went 3/3 and got his Hellfire Ring and of course it was the guy who didn't have a set of keys :P. I went 2/3 but got the last piece just now so I've got my first ring.
And yeah, legendaries are dropping like crazy. I found 5 or 6 yesterday but 3 were great and 2 of my friends who hadn't seen a set item ever each found 2 sets, so just in the games I was in I think 5 set items and maybe 10 legendary dropped in about 3 hours. Hopefully another Battle.net conspiracy where they bumped it right after release of patch to addict the casuals or else the market is going to crash fast (also I've seen some Leoric's already selling for 10M).
Thanks for the tip. I got the act 1 and 2 keys soloing, so the next one will be a good bench mark for me. I'm about in the middle for my group so I can probably add one MP to what I can do for the ubers.
I'm one of the people who has not gotten a set item yet, so hope I get one soon.
Thanks for the tip. I got the act 1 and 2 keys soloing, so the next one will be a good bench mark for me. I'm about in the middle for my group so I can probably add one MP to what I can do for the ubers.
I'm one of the people who has not gotten a set item yet, so hope I get one soon.
Same here on never having had a set item drop. It all changed yesterday when a Zunimassa's Marrow dropped for me in Act 1 MP4 from some random white mob.
