Tesla unveils supercharger locations

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by photon

We don't even need fusion, a battery with a similar energy density to gasoline would be a total game changer. Just build a solar array in the middle of the desert and ship the batteries back and forth; we already do that with billions of gallons of oil.

Cannot wait for battery pipeline

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Radio

How do these electric cars perform in winter temperatures? How are they at -30° C? Has there been any testing under those sorts of conditions?

Many of these cars have heated/cooled battery packs. They'll do just as well as any other car would do.

@Return to the red,

Every commercial electric car these days is going to have regenerative braking. Basically it adds nothing to the technological complexity of the car, as the motor can do the generating.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

even if all your power comes from coal plants, having the emissions coming from one central site (the power station) instead of countless individual combustion engines is a helluva lot easier to manage from an environmental perspective

And all the power coming from coal fired plants is quickly becoming a moot point since NG is the 'fuel' choice of the future. Unless someone comes up with a super clean way to burn coal, I would say its on the way out. At least in North America.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

Readily available? That's awesome, I didn't know the available stuff had improved that much.

Regardless of how much solar has improved, it is and still will be small change compared to NG when it comes to future electricity production.

[stampsx2]

Count me in. I'll buy one. Most of my daily driving is under 150 kms. I dont need no charging stations. There's may be ten days out of the year that i drive more than 150 kms. For the amount i would save in fuel, i could easily buy a plane ticket for my long distance trip.

$300 in gas x 12 months = $3600

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

And all the power coming from coal fired plants is quickly becoming a moot point since NG is the 'fuel' choice of the future. Unless someone comes up with a super clean way to burn coal, I would say its on the way out. At least in North America.

We could scrub out most of the effluent from coal... but as usual, it comes down to economics.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by polak

Not interested. I drive a lot and

- Tesla S is a city car only.

- If your batteries break or need to be replaced you're so effed. Battery swapping will not be feasible for decades when you may start to see wide scale adaptation and by then your batteries will be long gone.

- For the price it's very slow and if you want to go fast, then your range plummets. Yes I realize my interest in performance puts me out of their target market... just sharing my opinion.

- This thing is competing with the 335i, S4 and C63 Amg, all of which blow it out of the water in everything besides fuel efficiency and if you're able to afford a car like that, you're not buying it for fuel savings.

- No AWD, No Thanks.

- If the car should break, there will probably only be what? one? maybe two shops that work on them? It will be insanely expensive to maintain once your warranty runs out.

If I wanted to save on gas in the city, I'd buy a leaf or wait until one of the small euro hatches comes out here with diesel.

A year ago I was in Israel touring a company that builds automated storage and retrieval systems for all sorts of industries. They were in partnership with one of the major auto manufacturers to design and build a swapping system that lets you drive into a service station, have your battery swapped, and drive away in minutes. From what I saw this could be feasible in years, not decades.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Count me in. I'll buy one. Most of my daily driving is under 150 kms. I dont need no charging stations. There's may be ten days out of the year that i drive more than 150 kms. For the amount i would save in fuel, i could easily buy a plane ticket for my long distance trip.

$300 in gas x 12 months = $3600

90% of Canadians drive less than 60km per day. (it's actually less in the US, around 45km)

But the obvious problem in a place like Calgary is getting to destinations like Fernie, Banff, and Revelstoke. Tesla's range is the exception - most of the affordable electric cars offer around 160km of range, which isn't enough if you make regular trips into the Rockies. (or across the prairies)

Still, BC is investing millions in EV infrastructure, and the US has a West Coast Highway in the works from the border to California. They're fun to drive too, but I think for most of us an electric car would probably have to be the second car in the family.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

From a mechanical point of view, does going faster in an electric car decrease range like a gas powered car?

Yes, driving faster means you don't go as far. Using the stereo and AC/heater also reduce the range. Really, every "drop" of juice you use comes from the "gas tank", such as it is. In Canada or anywhere cold, you also have to keep the battery warm, so the battery is running the heater that keeps the battery warm.

Range estimates are essentially "best case scenarios" on electric cars. If you go slow, and it's not too hot or too cold and you aren't blasting Insane Clown Posse (huge with electric vehicle owners, oddly enough) you should, allegedly, get the advertised distance out of it.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Vox

A year ago I was in Israel touring a company that builds automated storage and retrieval systems for all sorts of industries. They were in partnership with one of the major auto manufacturers to design and build a swapping system that lets you drive into a service station, have your battery swapped, and drive away in minutes. From what I saw this could be feasible in years, not decades.

Yeah, these may exist in a few years, but it will be decades before they're widespread and cities like Calgary have them and I seriously doubt they will be free. Those batteries cost thousands, I seriously doubt they're going to just give you a new one.

Hell, first you have to get all the manufacturers to use the same (or atleast only a couple) batteries.

Good luck.
It'll be decades.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by polak

Yeah, these may exist in a few years, but it will be decades before they're widespread and cities like Calgary have them and I seriously doubt they will be free. Those batteries cost thousands, I seriously doubt they're going to just give you a new one.

Hell, first you have to get all the manufacturers to use the same (or atleast only a couple) batteries.

Good luck.
It'll be decades.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that they'll just be giving batteries away.

Every major auto manufacturer in the world is investing in electric vehicles. This "swap out your battery for a charged one" might never come to pass (probably for the reason you mentioned), but they aren't dumping billions into electrics/hybrids right now for a return that is "decades" down the road.

Electric cars will be common in the near future. Near being a relative term, I guess, but it won't be decades, even in Calgary.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by polak

Yeah, these may exist in a few years, but it will be decades before they're widespread and cities like Calgary have them and I seriously doubt they will be free. Those batteries cost thousands, I seriously doubt they're going to just give you a new one.

Hell, first you have to get all the manufacturers to use the same (or atleast only a couple) batteries.

Good luck.
It'll be decades.

That's exactly the concept, actually. The batteries would be owned and maintained by the manufacturer, and you swap the one you are using for a freshly charged one as it depletes.

I'm not arguing for or against the economic model, I'm just saying it's possible soon.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vox

That's exactly the concept, actually. The batteries would be owned and maintained by the manufacturer, and you swap the one you are using for a freshly charged one as it depletes.

Yeah, exactly. I don't see this as far fetched. Obviously the prices are vastly different at this point but this is effectively how people deal with their BBQ's now. You take the old propane tank that is depleted and switch it for a new one that's filled up.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, exactly. I don't see this as far fetched. Obviously the prices are vastly different at this point but this is effectively how people deal with their BBQ's now. You take the old propane tank that is depleted and switch it for a new one that's filled up.

Propane tanks =/= Batteries.

Do you want to know how much these things cost? Unless they switch from Lithium Ion in the near future, you're looking at TENS of thousands of dollars each. Obviously the tech is getting better but back when the first Tesla Roadsters came out and you saw the "bricking" problem, where the battery was rendered useless, you had owners paying $40,000 to replace the battery.

You expect the Manufactruer to take on that sort of risk for every battery they swap? I can't find any accurate numbers for the current price of Tesla S batteries, even tesla's website says its too hard to predict replacement costs but I did see reports that batteries are supposed to be cost around 50% of what they cost now in 8 years. That is still a ridiculous sum of money for a company to take on for every car they sell.

[Rathji]

Is it really that big of a stretch for them to be able to eventually include the cost of these swapped batteries, factoring in failure rate, into the new car price?

You act as though they will sell the car for the same price regardless of the presence of the battery swap. Of course companies won't do something that will lose them $40k on each car they sell. I think that is obvious.

[ken0042]

Yes, if the battery costs $10,000 and is good for 500 charge cycles; then you add $20 to the cost of each battery swap. Same as right now where they charge more for the propane exchange than the cost of just filling your own tank.

I also think that once these get to the point where you could have battery swap stations; the cost of the batteries would come down significantly.

[polak]

I never said it won't happen. I said it would take a decade before its widespread.
Honestly I'm suprised that everyone thinks that my estimate is pessamistic. I thought it was sort of optamistic.

Chevrolet sold 275 Volts last year, Nissan sold 170 Leafs last year, Mitsubishi sold 23 iMiEVs last year,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle4170750/

Do you realize how far away we are from widespread electric car use? I just can't see battery swaping becoming a viable alternative to re-charging or traditional repair/replacement for a long time.

I mean if this was as close as you guys thought, wouldn't you think that companies like Tesla would have it plastered all over their website?

Also, those sales I posted earlier are causing some car makers to rethink their EV plans so making it sound like there is about to be some huge boom in EV sales is also a little extreme.

Audi: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/04...-price-tag-fe/

Toyota: http://blogs.automotive.com/toyota-c...ds-112663.html

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by polak

Chevrolet sold 275 Volts last year, Nissan sold 170 Leafs last year, Mitsubishi sold 23 iMiEVs last year,

The Leaf and Volt were only available to the public in September of 2011.

The iMiEV was only available in December 2011.

All three had delivery backlogs as production ramped up.

Of course sales were low in 2011! But that doesn't mean anything, whatwe need to see is 2012 and 2013 sales numbers.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The Leaf and Volt were only available to the public in September of 2011.

The iMiEV was only available in December 2011.

All three had delivery backlogs as production ramped up.

Of course sales were low in 2011! But that doesn't mean anything, whatwe need to see is 2012 and 2013 sales numbers.

Not to mention those things are ugly as sin. Come out with something that looks like that new Tesla at a reasonable price and the consumer will be all over it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by return to the red

Not to mention those things are ugly as sin. Come out with something that looks like that new Tesla at a reasonable price and the consumer will be all over it.

I'm wondering how Ford's Focus Electric and C-Max Energi (Plug in Hybrid) are going to do. Both of those look pretty good, IMO. For a family car, I'm quite interested in the C-Max.