US Ambassador to Lybia, along with 3 others, killed

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Bullets on their own aren't particularly harmful; they're small bits of metal with some powder wrapped in plastic. Yet they somehow manage to kill an awful lot of people.

The Muslims that are non-violent, reasonable, free thinking people are no threat to anyone. The problem is that they are VASTLY outnumbered by crazy people who are still in the 'drag the deposed leader through the streets while firing AK47s into the air' stage of human evolution. But don't tell them about that either, since they'll probably try to behead you.

There is 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, obviously math isn't your strong suit if you think the actions of thousands equated to hundreds of millions or a billion and a half. The trashy part of any society isn't the majority in opinion or actions. That would be like claiming all white people are racist because you saw a Klan rally on the TV one day and there sure were a lot of us there. You have absolutely no way to substantiate what you claim, and frankly its pathetic how Islamaphobic people have become. How dumb do you have to be to believe such nonsense.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's on Muslims to sort their image out; it's not on us to accept this nonsense. We don't do it for anyone else.

Well said.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

There is 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, obviously math isn't your strong suit if you think the actions of thousands equated to hundreds of millions or a billion and a half. The trashy part of any society isn't the majority in opinion or actions. That would be like claiming all white people are racist because you saw a Klan rally on the TV one day and there sure were a lot of us there. You have absolutely no way to substantiate what you claim, and frankly its pathetic how Islamaphobic people have become. How dumb do you have to be to believe such nonsense.

The Klan and other hate groups are isolated from main stream christianity. For every hateful thing they do they are rebuked by the rest of society including the main christian sects.

What is troubling about Muslims is the lack of voice from what you would think would be the peace loving majority. This hateful minority seems comfortable sharing the same houses of worship and walking in the larger Muslim community.

If Skin heads or the Klan started marching in our streets there would be a counter march planned; There would be public out rage; There would be letters to the local papers and negative news stories. Christians wouldn't be alone in these protests but, they would be well represented.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The Klan and other hate groups are isolated from main stream christianity. For every hateful thing they do they are rebuked by the rest of society including the main christian sects.

What is troubling about Muslims is the lack of voice from what you would think would be the peace loving majority. This hateful minority seems comfortable sharing the same houses of worship and walking in the larger Muslim community.

If Skin heads or the Klan started marching in our streets there would be a counter march planned; There would be public out rage; There would be letters to the local papers and negative news stories. Christians wouldn't be alone in these protests but, they would be well represented.

I wasnt equating Klansmen to Christians. Fear is the main reason people don't speak out and counter protest in those countries. Would you want to fight and possibly be killed by a bunch of thugs because you disagreed with their opinion? Those people with signs in Benghazi were pretty brave in my opinion to stand out there and protest against those militias who killed the Ambassador.

[Azure]

I don't think its fair to equate religious extremists in the ME to religious extremists in North America simply because most of us live in a democratic society, while most people in the ME don't.

When the Westboro Baptist Church protests at funerals of military members, the Patriot Guard blocks them off as best as they can. At the end of the day nobody gets killed.

In the ME on the other hand, when the crazies protest, people get shot, blow up or beaten up because there is no true freedom of expression.

[Muta]

There are some parts of the world that are pretty much like wasp nests - someone swats at it, and thousands of its servants come out and sting ANYTHING with reckless abandon, completely absent of any discrimination in the process.

There are many people in this world that need a hug, and many more than need to calm the F down. Don't get violent - just pray for them. I'm sure your god will like that better, anyways.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

nvm

[WCW Nitro]

First post here and I feel compelled to write this in light of the recent situation in the Middle East. Let me first say that I'm a Muslim and I am absolutely embarrassed by the reaction of my fellow Muslims worldwide.

We(Muslims) have got to admit that there is a HUGE problem in our midst and try to find concrete solutions to fix this. Our leaders have got to come out and explicitily state that NO innocent person should be harmed no matter what the justification is. No excuses. Muslims in the West have got to realize that we cannot impose our values on the majority. I have read the Quran in some detail and it continually says to leave people alone,even those who mock your religion. It even instructs the Prophets to not take matters into their own hands and they are simply to teach people without forcing anyone to believe. I hope people realize that there are Muslims who sincerely want to live in peaceful co-existence and we are trying to combat a very complex situation.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I wasnt equating Klansmen to Christians. Fear is the main reason people don't speak out and counter protest in those countries. Would you want to fight and possibly be killed by a bunch of thugs because you disagreed with their opinion? Those people with signs in Benghazi were pretty brave in my opinion to stand out there and protest against those militias who killed the Ambassador.

I agree with what you said. The common person is taking a risk in a lot these countries where this is a problem. But what about persons of influence such as political leaders and religious leaders? In a number of cases they either support and encourage what the radicals are doing or they are silent on the matter.

If the majority don't support the radicals, why do they continue to follow those people of influence who either do or fail to condemn?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

There is 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, obviously math isn't your strong suit if you think the actions of thousands equated to hundreds of millions or a billion and a half. The trashy part of any society isn't the majority in opinion or actions. That would be like claiming all white people are racist because you saw a Klan rally on the TV one day and there sure were a lot of us there. You have absolutely no way to substantiate what you claim, and frankly its pathetic how Islamaphobic people have become. How dumb do you have to be to believe such nonsense.

Then what's stopping Syria, Lebanon, Lydia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq Iran, Egypt, etc from being normal, reasonable people? If its not Islam, I'm sure it's the fault of white people, right?

Nobody is saying all Islam is bad, but Islam has a lot more work to do in comparison to Christianity and Judaism before it does anything but scare the hell out if people

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

First post here and I feel compelled to write this in light of the recent situation in the Middle East. Let me first say that I'm a Muslim and I am absolutely embarrassed by the reaction of my fellow Muslims worldwide.

We(Muslims) have got to admit that there is a HUGE problem in our midst and try to find concrete solutions to fix this. Our leaders have got to come out and explicitily state that NO innocent person should be harmed no matter what the justification is. No excuses. Muslims in the West have got to realize that we cannot impose our values on the majority. I have read the Quran in some detail and it continually says to leave people alone,even those who mock your religion. It even instructs the Prophets to not take matters into their own hands and they are simply to teach people without forcing anyone to believe. I hope people realize that there are Muslims who sincerely want to live in peaceful co-existence and we are trying to combat a very complex situation.

I hope you are soon a part of a vocal majority, for the good of everyone.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The Klan and other hate groups are isolated from main stream christianity. For every hateful thing they do they are rebuked by the rest of society including the main christian sects.

What is troubling about Muslims is the lack of voice from what you would think would be the peace loving majority. This hateful minority seems comfortable sharing the same houses of worship and walking in the larger Muslim community.

If Skin heads or the Klan started marching in our streets there would be a counter march planned; There would be public out rage; There would be letters to the local papers and negative news stories. Christians wouldn't be alone in these protests but, they would be well represented.

You think Salafists worship with Barelvis outside shrines in Pakistan? In most cases, extremists do not share the same places of worship as moderates. This is the same with every religion, including Christianity, including in the United States.

As for staging counter protests against the Klan, I agree to some degree, though the Klan isn't able to respond to the counter-march with AKs, kidnappings, beheadings, and suicide vests.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The film maker who is on probation has been questioned by the parole office and for now released. It is illegal for him to use a false name or the internet(without permission).
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...09-15-06-44-20

I understand this movie was poorly made and is offensive to Muslims. What I'm curious about is if this movie is accurate.

Maybe try watching the trailer or read up on it and than read a little about Mohamed from an unbiased source. From my understanding it is not accurate in the least and even to think that it may be is preposterous.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Find me one mullah (not in the USA or western Europe) who will go on record denouncing violence.

How about you try using something called "an internet search engine"?

Sheesh. Fine. Let me Google that for you.

Islamic statements against terrorism

There is a very significant fatwa against terrorism issued by Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, one of the most reknowned and highly acclaimed muslim scholars, if not the most acclaimed.

Here's a picture of his crowd in Hyberabad (India, the man himself is btw a Pakistani.)

There were a reported 100 million people listening to him speak, and approximetely 2 million people tried to gather (with various levels of success) to hear him out.

Here's a picture...

And another from Bangalore...


Not sure where this is...


What message did these people come to listen to? Certainly not anything the terrorists like, because this guy has received numerous threats from Taleban and other terrorist organizations for his words. Stuff like:

The scholar describes al-Qaeda as an "old evil with a new name" that has not been sufficiently challenged.

"They [terrorists] can't claim that their suicide bombings are martyrdom operations and that they become the heroes of the Muslim Umma [global brotherhood]. No, they become heroes of hellfire, and they are leading towards hellfire," he said. "There is no place for any martyrdom and their act is never, ever to be considered jihad."

Shaykh-ul-Islam said that the founder of the parliamentary democracy was not western world but the Holy Prophet (PBUH). The Prophet (PBUH) is the paragon of peace and mercy for all the worlds. He said that he who thinks that terrorism was connected with Islam was in manifest error. He said that terrorism had nothing to do with either Islam or Islamic system as such. He said that the world was talking of such issues as democracy, human rights, rights of children and women today but the Holy Prophet (PBUH) gave a charter of human rights at a time when these things were not even heard of.

Yes, these are the kinds of words that draw millions of muslims to them.

Basicly, if you bothered to google it yourself for five minutes, you would have pretty easily found out that there are hundreds if not thousands of statements against terrorism and terrorists by every possible sort of muslim to be found in the internet. There are propably millions of people in various peaceful muslim organizations which actively spread the word that terrorism does not belong in islam.

But because it doesn't fit with the US world view of islam it's not reported, and because people are too damned lazy to check things out for themselves, Americans and many other westerners continue to believe in the type of BS you do.

[Itse]

Here's also an important bit from one of the articles linked in this thread.

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...-embassy-cairo

like most protesters at the scene, Ibrahim believes “The Innocence of Muslims” is a Hollywood production that, like any local or international film released in Egypt, and presumably elsewhere, passes through several rounds of censorship and receives official state approval from its own government before seeing the light of day

These are people who have lived all their lives under various oppressive regimes. Our concept of free speech is completely alien to them, sadly. The idea that someone can just make a movie and get it out there for anyone to see without government approval and official support is too weird to comprehend.

So to people like these, "The Innocence of Muslims" might as well have been made right there in the very embassies they are attacking. Which is not really an excuse as such, but it certainly puts what's going on into perspective. Those people are not randomly attacking westerners, they believe they are attacking the very people responsible, and that the film is basicly official US propaganda.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Itse

because people are too damned lazy to check things out for themselves, Americans and many other westerners continue to believe in the type of BS you do.

You have no idea what I believe.

[Clarkey]

That is a horrible 'movie'. Is there even a plot, it's just a bunch of random scenes? And what's with the white actors posing as Arabs, reminds me of the 1960's cowboy films with the skinny white guy with a pony tail and dark makeup posing as a Native.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Itse

These are people who have lived all their lives under various oppressive regimes. Our concept of free speech is completely alien to them, sadly. The idea that someone can just make a movie and get it out there for anyone to see without government approval and official support is too weird to comprehend.

So to people like these, "The Innocence of Muslims" might as well have been made right there in the very embassies they are attacking. Which is not really an excuse as such, but it certainly puts what's going on into perspective. Those people are not randomly attacking westerners, they believe they are attacking the very people responsible, and that the film is basicly official US propaganda.

This is such BS. Not sure who is worse, the violent thugs themselves, their jihad calling leaders or their supposedly enlightened apologists.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Then what's stopping Syria, Lebanon, Lydia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq Iran, Egypt, etc from being normal, reasonable people? If its not Islam, I'm sure it's the fault of white people, right?

I'm not sure what Lydia's problem is, but Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Egypt are countries, and not unreasonable people.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

First post here and I feel compelled to write this in light of the recent situation in the Middle East. Let me first say that I'm a Muslim and I am absolutely embarrassed by the reaction of my fellow Muslims worldwide.

We(Muslims) have got to admit that there is a HUGE problem in our midst and try to find concrete solutions to fix this. Our leaders have got to come out and explicitily state that NO innocent person should be harmed no matter what the justification is. No excuses. Muslims in the West have got to realize that we cannot impose our values on the majority. I have read the Quran in some detail and it continually says to leave people alone,even those who mock your religion. It even instructs the Prophets to not take matters into their own hands and they are simply to teach people without forcing anyone to believe. I hope people realize that there are Muslims who sincerely want to live in peaceful co-existence and we are trying to combat a very complex situation.

I think most people know the vast majority of western Muslims are extremely peaceful and respectful to their new homelands, I think the problem in the middle east is the clergy has everyone brainwashed and the governments are afraid of them.

A muslim friend of mine said something that was both funny and sad. "If bin Ladin was a christian World War III would have broke out by now!"