RCMP college in Fort MacLeod was a great idea until Wildrose won the riding

[1stLand]

Okay I get that the PC government is scrapping this project in an effort to 'cut costs'.

Does that mean they are no longer going to fund sex change operations?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I already answered, actually. I said I have no idea what Wildrose would have done in the hypothetical situation where they formed government.

What Wildrose may or may not have done is completely irrelevant to what the PCs did do, and why they did it.

I disagree. I think that when the point is to elect one of these parties to lead the province its entirely relevant if the alternative would've done the same thing.

The point of the opposition (at least in my opinion) isn't simply to continually say "the government is bad". To me an effective opposition would say "the government is bad and here is what we would've done different." I know, that leaves them open to scrutiny and second guessing because they don't always have a better answer, but thats the grown up way to solve problems.

[Rathji]

Actually it does.

If you blame the PCs for holding back on shutting down the project for political reasons, then what the Wildrose party would have done is completely relevant.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Okay I get that the PC government is scrapping this project in an effort to 'cut costs'.

Does that mean they are no longer going to fund sex change operations?

They stopped funding of sex change operations in the budget 2 years ago.

The total amount saved was peanuts compared to the training center though.

[MarchHare]

If this was truly a vindictive move by the PCs to "punish" a riding that voted for another party, instead of cancelling the project completely, wouldn't they relocate the training facility to "reward" another area of the province that voted for the PCs?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Actually it does.

If you blame the PCs for holding back on shutting down the project for political reasons, then what the Wildrose party would have done is completely relevant.

I suppose if that's your only rationale, then yes that's true. Most people seem to suggest that they had to cut somewhere and were starting with these constituencies. If that is the case then it does matter what the Wildrose would've done.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

That's not what I'm reading.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/09/02...s-no-more-cuts

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If this was truly a vindictive move by the PCs to "punish" a riding that voted for another party, instead of cancelling the project completely, wouldn't they relocate the training facility to "reward" another area of the province that voted for the PCs?

I believe the training facilities are staying within the cities, Calgary and Edmonton, where they already exist. I think one of the biggest concerns was paying for accomodation for the trainees while in Fort McLeod.

Politically, the cities voted PC, however considering all the facts, I don't believe the decision to scrap the centre in Fort McLeod was done to punish the area for voting Wildrose. I believe it was done for sound financial reasons.

I just hope the people of Fort McLeod are properly compensated for ALL the losses incurred, as a result of mismanagement of the whole affair by the PC's.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Dion

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/09/02...s-no-more-cuts

You're going to have to help me see where the Premier said no cuts.

Sure the Calgary Sun headline suggests she said that, but I don't see a quote.

I see a quote saying

“We’re going to review, as he said, our operating, we’re going to review our capital infrastructure plan.”

Looking at the Calgary Herald report, it suggests more cuts are coming

On the heels of the government’s gloomy first-quarter update, Redford also dismissed concerns about the state of Alberta’s finances, telling reporters the province is prepared to make “tough decisions” in the face of a volatile economy.

“In really difficult fiscal times, one of the things you have to do is make the tough decisions,” Redford said.

I'm guessing this is the quote that's created some confusion:

“We are fully committed to meeting what we did in our budget before the election and we were very honest at that time to say that we will have a projected deficit of less than one billion dollars,” Redford said.

You (and the Calgary Sun) seem to think this indicates no more cuts are coming.

I think it suggests the opposite. The commitment was for a projected deficit of less than a billion dollars. With lower revenues, spending will have to be reduced to keep the deficit in the budgeted range.

[Cowperson]

I wonder what performance agreements - if any - were in place between the town of Fort McLeod and the province of Alberta.

Was Fort McLeod required by the province to put up the initial $4 million in improvements to prep the site area for construction or was that done on optimistic hope by Fort McLeod town council?

Had the province flowed money through the provincial grant system to Fort McLeod to fund the improvements?

Just wondering how outraged the Mayor of Fort McLeod should really be if town council was caught with its pants around its ankles without signatures from the province. Or maybe they got the $4 million from the province and he's mad that the overall economic benefit isn't going to materialize (understandable).

Just wondering . . . .

Cowperson

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I wonder what performance agreements - if any - were in place between the town of Fort McLeod and the province of Alberta.

Was Fort McLeod required by the province to put up the initial $4 million in improvements to prep the site area for construction or was that done on optimistic hope by Fort McLeod town council?

Had the province flowed money through the provincial grant system to Fort McLeod to fund the improvements?

Just wondering how outraged the Mayor of Fort McLeod should really be if town council was caught with its pants around its ankles without signatures from the province. Or maybe they got the $4 million from the province and he's mad that the overall economic benefit isn't going to materialize (understandable).

Just wondering . . . .

Cowperson

Fort McLeod HAD signatures from the province. They bid for the right to have this 6 years ago, and agreed to provide the land and pay for site prep to get the economic development. The province signed up, and they transferred the land and did the site prep. Now the province has un-signed, so it seems pretty reasonable for Fort McLeod to get their money/land back, imo.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Fort McLeod HAD signatures from the province. They bid for the right to have this 6 years ago, and agreed to provide the land and pay for site prep to get the economic development. The province signed up, and they transferred the land and did the site prep. Now the province has un-signed, so it seems pretty reasonable for Fort McLeod to get their money/land back, imo.

We can hypothesize till our ears bleed about what should be done with Fort McLeod, but ultimately there should (and likely is) provisions for such events in the contracts with the town and the contractor.

If there are provisions for compensation, the town will get what it is owed.

If not, then they spent the money full well knowing it was a gamble and could be cancelled at any time.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I already answered, actually. I said I have no idea what Wildrose would have done in the hypothetical situation where they formed government.

What Wildrose may or may not have done is completely irrelevant to what the PCs did do, and why they did it.

The Wildrose prepared a detailed budget document outlining exactly what they would do.

However, Slava dismisses that continuously as impossible. His argumentation is circular by design.

Sadly, we are seeing exactly what was predicted by both the Wildrose AND the Liberals prior to the election of the Redford PC's.... totally irresponsible revenue forecasts and huge spending promises leading to cuts and deficits. Welcome to Redberta.

[transplant99]

IM not convinced that the college being discontinued is a direct result of the MacLeod riding going to the WR....or really a punishment of any sort.

What i am convinced of however, is that had the riding gone PC there would never have been a peep about shutting it down and instead it would have been built and used as it was designed to, regardless of any letters from Edmonton and Calgary police chiefs who conveniently were asked their thoughts only after the election.

Its so transparent its ridiculous, and no it doesnt matter what WR would have done because there is no known answer since they have not had a chance to actually make a decision.

Slava, since you are seemngly saying this decision is OK because the WR would have done the same thing, can you tell me what the Liberals would have done if elected and why it would be the correct course of action?

[metallicat]

Regardless of motive, and quite frankly I couldn't care less, I think this was the right decision. If the two largest police services don't want it and don't think it would help improve recruiting and training, then it shouldn't be going ahead. That doesn't mean the PCs shouldn't be asked hard questions about the wasting of money on this project.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

The Wildrose prepared a detailed budget document outlining exactly what they would do.

However, Slava dismisses that continuously as impossible. His argumentation is circular by design.

Sadly, we are seeing exactly what was predicted by both the Wildrose AND the Liberals prior to the election of the Redford PC's.... totally irresponsible revenue forecasts and huge spending promises leading to cuts and deficits. Welcome to Redberta.

No, the reason I laugh at their "budget" is because the numbers don't add up. The entire thing is predicated on the cancellation of the $2B carbon capture project...except that this would only save about $500M and leaves their budget off by roughly a billion dollars. That and their continued reliance on resource revenue without an eye towards any future generations. But lets not lets the facts of their budget document get in the way of good ol' partisanship.

Originally Posted by transplant99

IM not convinced that the college being discontinued is a direct result of the MacLeod riding going to the WR....or really a punishment of any sort.

What i am convinced of however, is that had the riding gone PC there would never have been a peep about shutting it down and instead it would have been built and used as it was designed to, regardless of any letters from Edmonton and Calgary police chiefs who conveniently were asked their thoughts only after the election.

Its so transparent its ridiculous, and no it doesnt matter what WR would have done because there is no known answer since they have not had a chance to actually make a decision.

Slava, since you are seemngly saying this decision is OK because the WR would have done the same thing, can you tell me what the Liberals would have done if elected and why it would be the correct course of action?

I don't know what the Liberals would've done actually. That truly is irrelevant though as no one would've believed they would form government, and they're not crying "politics" at this cancellation. The Wildrose though is saying this was a terrible decision, and are entirely hypocritical in that stance if they'd have made the same call.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What i am convinced of however, is that had the riding gone PC there would never have been a peep about shutting it down and instead it would have been built and used as it was designed to, regardless of any letters from Edmonton and Calgary police chiefs who conveniently were asked their thoughts only after the election.

Based on what? This thread is giant collection of irrational post hoc thinking.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know what the Liberals would've done actually. That truly is irrelevant though as no one would've believed they would form government, and they're not crying "politics" at this cancellation. The Wildrose though is saying this was a terrible decision, and are entirely hypocritical in that stance if they'd have made the same call.

You sure of that?

http://www.fortmacleodgazette.com/20...ting-wildrose/

[flamesfever]

I wonder if the Wildrose could have justified building the facility with the idea that Alberta may develop their own provincial police force in years to come. As an Alberta provincial force would be taking the place of the RCMP in policing areas outside the cities, and the RCMP are trained in Regina, then it may make sense to have a centralized facility in Fort McLeod for our force. I think the fact that officers would be spending a lot of time together in training, 24 hrs a day for an extended period, may have some advantages...as it does for the RCMP. It may also justify the accomodation cost...one of the arguments against the Fort McLeod facility put forth in the letter from the Chiefs'.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I wonder if the Wildrose could have justified building the facility with the idea that Alberta may develop their own provincial police force in years to come. As an Alberta provincial force would be taking the place of the RCMP in policing areas outside the cities, and the RCMP are trained in Regina, then it may make sense to have a centralized facility in Fort McLeod for our force. I think the fact that officers would be spending a lot of time together in training, 24 hrs a day for an extended period, may have some advantages...as it does for the RCMP. It may also justify the accomodation cost...one of the arguments against the Fort McLeod facility put forth in the letter from the Chiefs'.

The Province just signed a 20 year deal with the RCMP in the last few months. It would be hard for any party to justify building it today based on the Province adopting its own police force.