The Dark Knight Rises: July 20, 2012

[Coach]

Yes but again, it was the first Spiderman. As I said ASM was being met with wide skepticism becasue A) Spiderman 3 was terrible B) It was rebooted so quickly C) the perception was that the reboot was rushed out purely so Sony could retain the rights to the characters.

Spiderman 1,2 and 3 had none of these factors working against it, and if Sony studios didn't take this into account they probably need some new people running that place. The point is, I think Amazing Spiderman performed AT LEAST to expectations. If it had beat out any of the previous movies it probably wouldve resulted in a gigantic party at Sony Studios.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Studios having unrealistic expectations is nothing new though. I mean who the hell thought movies like John Carter, Pluto Nash or Speed Racer would be massive box office successes? But studios willingly plunked down over a half a billion combined on those movies believing they could be succesful, and of course they all failed horribly. I think in the context of being an essentially new tentpole movie, ASM performed exceptionally well. Within the context of both Marvel and the total superhero genre, it was a bit of a letdown.

[Flashpoint]

Got around to seeing Batman.

1) How did his cartilage get replaced?
2) Why did they put Catwoman into the men's prison (rape humor?), and then when everyone is released they show her back on the street. What was the point?
3) Why did they wait 5 months to blow up the city to fulfill that girl's father's dream?
4) What did the underground cops eat?
5) Why did the underground cops and thugs run at each others machine guns to engage in a fistfight?
6) Nobody in Gothem can ice skate?
7) If Batman is talking to Catwoman and Commissioner Gordon, who both know he's Bruce Wayne, why's he still using the bat voice?

[Coach]

Yeah I can get on board with that but in the same vien, wasn't Batman Begins a bit of a letdown initially? I mean, I was probably on the lower end of the demographic when it came out (I was 14) and I honestly don't even remember it being in theatres. I remember watching it on DVD many times as soon as I did see it, but most people I knew didn't even know there was a predecessor to TDK until after it came out.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I can get on board with that but in the same vien, wasn't Batman Begins a bit of a letdown initially? I mean, I was probably on the lower end of the demographic when it came out (I was 14) and I honestly don't even remember it being in theatres. I remember watching it on DVD many times as soon as I did see it, but most people I knew didn't even know there was a predecessor to TDK until after it came out.

Oh yeah it totally was considered a letdown. DVD is really what saved the Batman series. I'll admit to not watching Begins in theaters because of the debacle that was Batman & Robin, but once I saw Begins at home, went out and bought the DVD. In essence I think ASM hopes to achieve something similar, though it opened north of $100 million its opening weekend, not $45 million like Batman Begins.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Got around to seeing Batman.

1) How did his cartilage get replaced?
2) Why did they put Catwoman into the men's prison (rape humor?), and then when everyone is released they show her back on the street. What was the point?
3) Why did they wait 5 months to blow up the city to fulfill that girl's father's dream?
4) What did the underground cops eat?
5) Why did the underground cops and thugs run at each others machine guns to engage in a fistfight?
6) Nobody in Gothem can ice skate?
7) If Batman is talking to Catwoman and Commissioner Gordon, who both know he's Bruce Wayne, why's he still using the bat voice?

Were you paying attention? Haha

1) This was never really addressed, but I would assume that when he rehabilited his back, he did so to the rest of his body. Don't know if cartilage replaces itself, but its Batman
2) They mentioned that gender provisions were overlooked for special cases (ie, Kyle is much more dangerous to the other criminals than they are to her)
3)Bane wanted to give them hope that there was a way out, when really there wasnt. Like his prison.
4) They were provided food and water as Bane expresses in his speech at the prison
5) The cops did have some guns, but you can tell how skeptical they all were until they realized they had support of the Batman. But yeah again, its a movie.
6) This is a funny point, but you weigh relatively the same with skates on as without. Yeah they might beable to glide over some weak parts, but ultimately, its a big river.
7) Gordon didnt realize he was Bruce Wayne until after he left. Also, Batman is a persona. Bruce Wayne has a duality between the two people that I'm sure isn't easy to shake, nor is he willing to do so. Batman and Bruce Wayne are not the same person and that was kind of one of the underlying themes of the movie.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...and it's easily the best Spider-Man movie ever made. Sooo much better than those turds that Raimi & Seabiscuit made.

Perhaps it is, but because it came after the Raimi ones and because I came into the Raimi ones with little familiarity with the Spiderman lore, that's not how I perceived it.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Were you paying attention? Haha.

Yea that's the problem.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

Yea that's the problem.

Not sure if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not. The plot holes have been discussed at length in here and most of the things Flashpoint mentioned were explained in the film.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by SebC

You do realize that wasn't coincidence, right?

I know. I mean the fact that those 2 ended up together & happily ever after at all was kinda cheesy. Just seemed out of character for the feel of the trilogy, I actually liked how he died in a nuclear blast saving Gotham. I really enjoyed the movie, just wasn't big on that part.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I wish studio execs would tire of making Uncle Ben snuff films.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Remember when I said it would be cool to see a comic to film comparison that is basically panel by panel?

Well here's one for batman begins. Even missed a few. The rooftop dent, Gordon, batman scene. And the part where batman is asked by Gordon about the escalation. Both are from loeb and sale books. Edit: well that's because the dent scene is in TDK.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.ca/2011...art-v.html?m=1

[Cecil Terwilliger]

One thing about his knee. Not really a valid reason but it's maybe an ode to the comic.

The prison resembles the Lazarus Pit where Ra's Al Ghul goes to recharge when he dies. I think. Never read a Ra's story.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Russic

I have a buddy that reminds me a lot of some of the posters in this thread. Watching any movie with him is excruciating. Regardless of how good the movie is he gets caught up on plot holes and is unable to get over them. He stopped watching breaking bad after one episode because something bugged him. It's like he has a disorder.

It is a little bit killjoyish to be honest. I understand that it's nothing more than gentle debate, but over-complaining about plot points does come off as Debby Downerism. There's nothing wrong with wanting the movies to make sense, but that's how it's taken by many people.

Yeah. I havent even participated in this thread as after the amateur critics in the Promethius thread it's obvious that moviegoers have completely forgotten that motion pictures are escapism not tests of our intelligence. If every movie made perfect sense they would be documentaries.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by Komskies

It's like the fortune cookie I got with my lunch today:

"You will gain admiration from your pears."

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah. I havent even participated in this thread as after the amateur critics in the Promethius thread it's obvious that moviegoers have completely forgotten that motion pictures are escapism not tests of our intelligence. If every movie made perfect sense they would be documentaries.

You keep throwing around this moronic term amateur critics. Do you seriously think people didn't have opinions on movies prior to the Internet?

Amateur critics are bloggers who start a website and trash or praise movies. Harry knowles is one of these #######s.

People sharing opinions on the Internet or around the water cooler or anywhere else is just regular people sharing opinions.

Do you seriously act like a dick to people who share their opinions with you in day to day conversation and tell them that they're just some loser wannabe critic?

Films are escapism but they're not supposed to just be mindless escapism.

Would you say that all forms of media are just supposed to mindless escapism? So much for Orwell! Makes me think too much!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Films are escapism but they're not supposed to just be mindless escapism.

Agreed. Problem is that Dark Night Rises is not mindless yet the amateurs critics that believe they are above the regular moviegoer relish in every single plot pinhole as it provides the chance to show their superior intellect and how their high intelligence is insulted that the director didn't tack on an additional 15 minutes to an already long movie to explain to the moviegoer how Batman's knees got reconstructed.

I call people like yourself amateurs because a real critic knows what's acceptable to the general audience and isn't going to get fixated on unexplained events that don't have a large bearing on the story. If a movie is pure garbage and the only plot that exists is in holes then yes they will be bashed but a quality move doesn't get taken to task for minor holes as a real critic knows the process of what is involved in making a motion picture and that it's not practical to have every single act fully explained.

I could pick this movie apart if I wanted to but the fact is that I enjoyed it for what it was and life is too short to spend on finding reasons to critique something that brought you enjoyment. I look at movies as escapism and not a chance to bring out my detective kit and tell everyone else why they shouldn't like it. Some of you take your imaginary jobs way too seriously.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

a chance to bring out my detective kit and tell everyone else why they shouldn't like it.

Hm, I know several people this quote applies to. How apropos. I think I'll steal it. For those friends, the 'fun' of a movie begins after it, to see how much they can shred it. I often wonder why they waste the money seeing movies in theatres, but if that's what floats their boat...

I just know to stay away from their 'reviews'.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Hm, I know several people this quote applies to. How apropos. I think I'll steal it. For those friends, the 'fun' of a movie begins after it, to see how much they can shred it. I often wonder why they waste the money seeing movies in theatres, but if that's what floats their boat...

I just know to stay away from their 'reviews'.

Pretty much. Stick to real critics you trust and people you know that have similar tastes in movies and you can't go wrong. Amateur internet movie critics shouldn't be dictating what movies you go see.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

7) If Batman is talking to Catwoman and Commissioner Gordon, who both know he's Bruce Wayne, why's he still using the bat voice?

I always thought that the "Batman Voice" was a byproduct of his tight fitting, rigid cowl pressing on his throat, not a conscious affectation to hide his identity.