[Signing] Flames sign Jiri Hudler - 4 Years, $16 Million

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

sorry i missed something on this front... why wasn't Doan going to sign with anyoen until today?

His preference is to stay with the Coyotes, but only if he is reasonably certain the Coyotes have a long-term future in Phoenix.

If the referendum to block the new lease deal in Glendale goes ahead, it will likely scuttle the sale agreement the league has with Greg Jamison. If the referendum doesn't happen, the sale will likely be completed and the Coyotes will stay in Glendale for the foreseeable future.

Today is the deadline for the petition for the referendum to be submitted. If it doesn't get submitted, the lease deal will be completed and Doan will likely feel confidant enough in the team's future to stay in Phoenix.

If another wrench gets thrown into the Coyotes saga, Doan will likely look elsewhere.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

That's an awfully shallow analysis.

Well then...

In the last 3 seasons (since Cammalleri signed with Montreal), Cammalleri has 138 points. 198 games

Fippulla, over the same period has 140 points. 207 games

Do you want more depth or will that suffice?

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by timbit

Well then...

In the last 3 seasons (since Cammalleri signed with Montreal), Cammalleri has 138 points. 198 games

Fippulla, over the same period has 140 points. 207 games

Do you want more depth or will that suffice?

Nope. Not good enough.

Cammalleri is on his 5th NHL contract, the most recent being signed after his career high 39G 43A 82P season. Filppula is on his 2nd contract, signed after a 19G, 17A, 36P season. It was a five-year deal, which he's still on.

Comparing cap hits between these two to suggest some sort of expected output is a complete waste of time.

Edit: forgot to bold my numbers for emphasis.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Nope. Not good enough.

Cammalleri is on his 5th NHL contract, the most recent being signed after his career high 39G 43A 82P season. Filppula is on his 2nd contract, signed after a 19G, 17A, 36P season. It was a five-year deal, which he's still on.

Comparing cap hits between these two to suggest some sort of expected output is a complete waste of time.

Edit: forgot to bold my numbers for emphasis.

My initial post was referencing current performance value and cap hits.

Some posters are saying that Cammalleri is currently a (much) better player than Filppula.

I beg to differ and have provided some comparative analysis, that is relative, current and substantiates my point.

[sun]

Originally Posted by timbit

Well then...

In the last 3 seasons (since Cammalleri signed with Montreal), Cammalleri has 138 points. 198 games

Fippulla, over the same period has 140 points. 207 games

Do you want more depth or will that suffice?

Originally Posted by timbit

The free agent market established [his] worth.

..

[AR_Six]

Basically what that means is Filpulla is a steal... well, no kidding. There are a few good contracts in the NHL. Dustin Brown just won a cup on a 3.175 million cap hit. Burrows has been a 30 goal scorer on 2 million for like, 3 years now. David Backes costs 4.5 million for one of the best 2-way PWFs in the league. Dave Bolland arguably ditto at 3.375.

Cammy signed for market value. He hasn't lived up to his contract, but come on, that's not really a fair basis on which to assess them as players. If you wanted term on Filpulla now he'd cost... 5? 5.5?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Basically what that means is Filpulla is a steal... well, no kidding. There are a few good contracts in the NHL. Dustin Brown just won a cup on a 3.175 million cap hit. Burrows has been a 30 goal scorer on 2 million for like, 3 years now. David Backes costs 4.5 million for one of the best 2-way PWFs in the league. Dave Bolland arguably ditto at 3.375.

Cammy signed for market value. He hasn't lived up to his contract, but come on, that's not really a fair basis on which to assess them as players. If you wanted term on Filpulla now he'd cost... 5? 5.5?

Agreed, yet the vast majority of posters would not trade Cammalleri for Filppula if it was on the table.

I do not understand. Why wouldn't you ?

[AR_Six]

Because Filpulla's contract is up at the end of the season and he's a UFA (i.e., he probably leaves), whereas Cammalleri still has term? I mean, let's say he never again reaches his lofty heights and he's a 30 goal, 65 point guy for the rest of his career. 6 mil to have him locked for a few years at that isn't exactly the worst thing in the world. I'm not saying he's a huge steal but he's not exactly Bouwmeester either.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by likwid888

I don't think Filppula was offered a massive contract coming off a career year, scoring 39 goals either.

that's because he's never scored 39 goals

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by timbit

Agreed, yet the vast majority of posters would not trade Cammalleri for Filppula if it was on the table.

I do not understand. Why wouldn't you ?

I might, but not because Filppula is the straight-up better player, because he's not. Cammalleri is. But Flip is a center, a bit younger, a bit bigger, and cheaper. He could still improve, whereas Cammy is probably not going to meet or exceed his 82P season.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

He couldn't wait until mid-july to fill a 2nd line wing spot? I'm not sure I buy that one. That being said, I guess what I mean is that if they go out and get Doan now, that would really get the top 6 in shape to take a believable run at a playoff berth. Now, however, I'd think the money makes it contingent on something happening with Bouwmeester.

No, they couldn't wait. Feaster waited on Richards last summer and it cost them a chance at other players that might have signed with the Flames in the meantime. They targeted players they thought they could sign quickly this year and were aggressive in pursuing them. He wasn't going to wait around this year.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

sorry i missed something on this front... why wasn't Doan going to sign with anyoen until today?

and he passed on Doan?

The ownership situation in Phoenix. Doan wasn't going to sign anywhere until that was sorted out. And I never said he passed on Doan, but rather he knew Doan wasn't signing anywhere until today at the earliest, so he went after a guy like Hudler who he knew he could sign as soon as July 1st.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

No, they couldn't wait. Feaster waited on Richards last summer and it cost them a chance at other players that might have signed with the Flames in the meantime. They targeted players they thought they could sign quickly this year and were aggressive in pursuing them. He wasn't going to wait around this year.

Fair enough. I think this represents the difference in philosophy I have with Feaster right now in re: the way forward for the Flames. If he feels like he has to get guys under contract or the team is going in the wrong direction, we're on different wavelengths. That being said, everything he's put in public to date suggests that we are on different wavelengths so whatever.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Nope. Not good enough.

Cammalleri is on his 5th NHL contract, the most recent being signed after his career high 39G 43A 82P season. Filppula is on his 2nd contract, signed after a 19G, 17A, 36P season. It was a five-year deal, which he's still on.

Comparing cap hits between these two to suggest some sort of expected output is a complete waste of time.

Edit: forgot to bold my numbers for emphasis.

That's not EVEN close what we are talking about. We aren't talking about PAST achievements, we are talking about RIGHT-NOW. Who cares if he is on his 5th contract? The truth is Cammalleri hasn't lived up to his contract (which he has now!), I would love him to prove me wrong this season, and I hope he does, but I'd take Filppula easily, in a different scenario (Flames do need a sniper like Cammy now, so a trade between them wouldn't make any sense, not that it ever would happen anyways).

Filppula is also one of the best skaters in the league.

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

That's not EVEN close what we are talking about. We aren't talking about PAST achievements, we are talking about RIGHT-NOW. Who cares if he is on his 5th contract? The truth is Cammalleri hasn't lived up to his contract (which he has now!), I would love him to prove me wrong this season, and I hope he does, but I'd take Filppula easily, in a different scenario (Flames do need a sniper like Cammy now, so a trade between them wouldn't make any sense, not that it ever would happen anyways).

Filppula is also one of the best skaters in the league.

You mean a contract that wasn't dished out by the Calgary Flames organization? You mean a contract that was dished out by the Montreal Canadiens? Oh, yeah, that one. Still, you should at least follow your own advice. When Mike Cammalleri came to Calgary this year, he had 11 goals in 28 games. That's pretty dang good, last time I checked, especially for a player that's transitioning to a new team. Seven points in eight games (in March)? Dang good, too. His playoff performance is simply great, as well. Thirteen goals in nineteen games. Ten points in seven games.

I mean, sure, a cap hit of $6,000,000 for a guy who will at best score thirty goals, and 50-55 points? It's not ideal, but I'll take it.

Also, yes, to a degree past achievements do matter. Flippula has one good season, at the age of twenty-eight. Cammalleri has been doing what Flippula has done statistically speaking since the beginning of his career.

[FAN]

Debating whether or not Cammalleri has lived up to his contract is pointless. Back then, almost everyone here said "no thanks" to the contract Cammalleri signed with Montreal and most people here did not want to trade for Cammalleri. There is only one way for Cammalleri to live up to his contract and that is 30+ goals in the regular a season + huge performance in the playoffs.

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by FAN

+ huge performance in the playoffs.

Which I think is the biggest thing, really. Outside of needing a sturdy goaltender, you need a forward you can also rely on. Cammalleri has, in my opinion, been one of those guys. Frankly, with all the potential scoring Calgary may have in this season, there's relatively not too much pressure on Cammalleri, but come playoff time guys like Stempniak probably won't make too much noise, which is where someone like Cammalleri comes in.

[vilzeh]

11 goals in 28 games, oke, that's great, but a third or so of those games were just games where they were just playing to end the season, without any pressure on them anymore tbh. Cammalleri wasn't bad when he came, but he wasn't great either, he was neutral, didn't do anything extra ordinary, and for sure didn't do anything to show that he's the old Cammy who left Calgary few seasons ago. Oh, except he only tried to pass to Iginla and vice-versa (on the pp), that was awful to watch from time to time, tried to force it.

[AR_Six]

How is playoff performance even a factor right now?

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

How is playoff performance even a factor right now?

It's safe to say Feaster expects the team to make the playoffs this season, especially considering he expected the team to do so this season. I don't personally know what you have said in the past, but I'd rather to listen to Feaster instead of half of the hyperbolic statements from here about how this team is the worst team ever.

Either way, yes, it's still a factor in regards to what I was speaking about, at least.

11 goals in 28 games, oke, that's great, but a third or so of those games were just games where they were just playing to end the season, without any pressure on them anymore tbh.

How is this suppose to help your point? If he's scoring goals when nobody gives a damn whether the team wins or lose, don't you think he'd be doing worse?

[AR_Six]

It's not the worst team ever. It's not the worst team right now. But it's not one of the 8 best in the conference, either. I guess my point is that playoff performance (the Steve Thomas factor) is of much greater value to the Pittsburghs of the world than it is to the Islanders. The latter should be more concerned about what its star players contribute to organizational development so that they can actually make the postseason next year or the year after and go from there. St. Louis, basically.

Feaster can expect, or say he expects, whatever he likes. In my estimation the expectation for the Flames should be finishing ahead of the Avalanche and Oilers. Making the playoffs should be the goal, I guess, but as an expectation... no. It would be overacheiving.