[Signing] Flames sign Jiri Hudler - 4 Years, $16 Million

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

When Feaster signed Stempniak he thought he would get Prust instead of Hudler??

Good thing he didn't get Prust if that's the case.

2nd liner @ 4M >>>>> 4th liner @ 2.5M.

Love Prusty but the Habs got bent over.... big time.

[403ep3]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

The more I think about it if he can even add 20 goals at even strength that's a huge huge boost. We where 24th in goals for 5 on 5 if you add 20 more goals we are 15th in the NHL.

I believe we where -23 5 on 5 we placed 25th in efficiency 5 on 5.

If we can add his 20 goals and get better defensively we will make the playoffs, but not as a 8th seed but much higher unless our specialty teams go down the toilet.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything buts its were, not where.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by 403ep3

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything buts its were, not where.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, however it's but not buts.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Barnission

This season Moss' PPG was 0.28, Comeau's was 0.25, and Stempniak's was 0.45. So if you're going by PPG stats, wanting Moss over Comeau/Stempniak makes no sense.

Signing Moss makes sense if you are worried about NHL level depth at Centre. Between Iginla, Tanguay, Cammalleri, Glencross, Hudler, Bartschi, Stempniak, Jackman, Comeau and Bouma we have the wings covered for 10 lines. Moss has more flexibility to play center than Stempniak.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Wow, much closer than I would have thought, and Moss certainly brings other things as well.

$2.1 M hit on Moss, $4 M hit on Hudler.

I understand Moss has been hurt, but I would have rather had him then both Stempniak and Comeau.

The Hudler signing really makes signing Stempniak not make much sense to me.

Moss had an injury filled season where be potted 2 goals in 32 games. I wouldn't want him back for 2.1 million.

Hudler is 2 years younger and far more skilled. Put up 50 points and got paid like a top 6 forward.

The Flames had a spot in their top 6 to fill. I, like some people, thought they would use Bouwmeester to grab this type of player. Instead Feaster signed him and didn't have to give up an asset.

In Feaster's interviews he is always talking about how the Flames are a team that lacks assets. Well now they have some depth that they can trade with. A guy like Babchuk is definitely not coming back and someone like Stajan is on the bubble. The team has a ton of wingers they can go into camp with and let the cards fall where they may. Whoever doesn't make the team can be move out for another asset.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

We are placing way too many eggs in the Cervenka basket. This could turn into a disaster.

Even if he is a 65 point player and blows Jokinen's last season away, Calgary still only has 1 bonafide NHL centre on the roster.

It's a massive, gaping hole that will only be fixed by trading a guy like Bouwmeester.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It also has to be taken into consideration, that over their respective last 5 full NHL seasons:

Moss - 55.2 games per season average
Hudler - 78.6 games per season average

That doesn't include rookie seasons either (like the first season where Moss got called up mid season and played only 41 games)

So....

Hudler -> 78.6 x 0.52 = 40.87 points per season average
Moss -> 55.2 x 0.39 - 21.53 points per season average

In the end, because of Moss' inability to remain healthy, it's not really close at all.

...and I'm a Moss fan.

Yeah, that's why I didn't break it down to a ppg ratio in my post. It makes the numbers a lot closer, but the biggest criticism of Moss is his inability to stay healthy. An extra .13 ppg from Hudler is probably not worth the extra $2M aav, but the reality is Hudler will probably score 20 or so more pts a season than Moss, if for no other reason than playing 20-30 games more per season than Moss.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

.

You have 6 soft guys plus 5' 9" 175 lb Baertschi who are in the Flames top 10 forwards.... Glencross and Iginla and maybe Cervenka have some sandpaper or grit.

Good job shrinking Sven to prove a point..

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

CsInMyBlood defending Moss...now I've seen everything...

I'm going to miss the Mossman, if he stays healthy I have the feeling he will put up a career year.

I understand he has had bad luck with injuries, but the guy is very underrated around here for what he brought to the team when he was in the lineup.

[vektor]

Well, I like it purely because it's change FINALLY. I'll be happy if we finish anywhere but 9th next season, no more waiting in limbo, sink or swim time.

Bouma, Cervenka, Iginla, Jones, Jackman are all over 200. Really we need one or two more big forwards and we won't get annihilated with size. What's our cap space now?

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, however it's but not buts.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, however it's but, not buts.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

Good thing he didn't get Prust if that's the case.

2nd liner @ 4M >>>>> 4th liner @ 2.5M.

Love Prusty but the Habs got bent over.... big time.

Feaster didn't have the price figured out..... 25 goal Hudler was one of the bright shining objects this UFA season ... you would have figured that 6-8 teams would be going after him.


Prust should have only gotten 2M max, but it is plain to see you are not going to be successful in todays NHL without having sandpaper players who can play 10-12 minutes without hurting the team.

The value of goons has dropped off the map, the value of Prust like players is skyrocketing.



Prust isn't a 5-8 minute 4th liner.

[sa226]

Something doesn't really add up as far as top sixers go.

Even if we do trade for a center, so that Cammalleri can play wing, that would push a Stempniak, Glencross or baertchi to the 4th line. That doesn't make sense.

I would guess that any trade for a top center would include either a winger or maybe the winger is traded in a separate deal.

RW: Iginla, Hudler, Stempniak
LW:Tanguay, Cammalleri, Glencross, Baertchi

Something would have to give

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by sa226

Something doesn't really add up as far as top sixers go.

Even if we do trade for a center, so that Cammalleri can play wing, that would push a Stempniak, Glencross or baertchi to the 4th line. That doesn't make sense.

I would guess that any trade for a top center would include either a winger or maybe the winger is traded in a separate deal.

RW: Iginla, Hudler, Stempniak
LW:Tanguay, Cammalleri, Glencross, Baertchi

Something would have to give

I agree, something has to give. Another thought I have had is the possibility that Backlund won't be ready to start the year. Or Feaster wants to have the bodies in place for when injuries do happen and until they do we could run 4 scoring lines

There is also the possibility someone asked for a trade.

[403ep3]

Originally Posted by 403ep3

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything buts its were, not where.

Lol typed that too fast

you don't need the ,

[Erick Estrada]

People comparing one of the least talented players in the league in Moss to Hudler really? Totally different players and while I respect Moss for being a hard worker and being one of the few guys willing to go to the net he's very limited in actual hockey skills. I got so tired of seeing him struggle trying to receive passes on the rush in the neutral zone over and over as he was terrible in the transition game. I really believe that moving from a team that was too full of lunchbucket players to a more skilled team is the right direction even if it means some size is sacrificed.

[vektor]

well, hudler has played more than moss has and has around 3x more points than Moss in the past 3 years so lamenting that we lose Moss's size is irrelevant, he wasn't using it. We get immediately significantly better if you consider Hudler a Moss replacement, which would be weird considering one is LW and one is RW

It's becoming apparent to me that when Feaster says "skill" he means points. They are trying to buy points, makes sense. Here Hudler gets 4m for his 50 points, imagine what Parise is going to get for his 69 points. I think Feaster is taking a dollar : point approach with other factors such as position and size as variants in a calculation that finds whether a contract signs a player at worth or below. For that reason alone this Hudler signing is probably worth it, bring in way more guys that consistently put up points and get rid of all our pluggers that produce nothing. Having players that produce way more points than the opposition isn't a bad approach, hopefully this new metrics/moneyball/whateverfeastercallsit works out in the long run.

Just fyi, Bourque who is much larger got 4m last year for 24 points, seems like a drastic improvement if you ask me.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by vektor

well, hudler has played more than moss has and has around 3x more points than Moss in the past 3 years so lamenting that we lose Moss's size is irrelevant, he wasn't using it. We get immediately significantly better if you consider Hudler a Moss replacement, which would be weird considering one is LW and one is RW

Didn't Moss cycle through all the positions? Serious question.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Mitch

Didn't Moss cycle through all the positions? Serious question.

In Moss' time in Calgary, he probably played every forward position but top line RW.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by vektor

well, hudler has played more than moss has and has around 3x more points than Moss in the past 3 years so lamenting that we lose Moss's size is irrelevant, he wasn't using it. We get immediately significantly better if you consider Hudler a Moss replacement, which would be weird considering one is LW and one is RW

Hudler and Moss can both play both wings and fill in at centre, so I'd say they are comparable in that way. Like Moss, Hudler isn't afraid to go to the front of the net, especially on the power play. He's smaller than Moss, bit is still similar to Langkow in size so he's not tiny either. Unlike Moss he has a great shot and legit top 6 skill and stays relatively healthy. Moss is better suited to being a 3rd line shutdown winger that puts up some points. Stempniak is going to be expected to fill that 3rd line role this year, and it appears, based on last year, that he should be able to do so adequately.