[Signing] Flames sign Jiri Hudler - 4 Years, $16 Million

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

I guess that depends on what you consider soft? Having three lines that can produce offensively now and not wasting roster spots on players who can't play in the offensive zone is far better imo then having a couple more pylons that are 'hard to play against'.

softness and skill are not mutually exclusive..... but on the Flames it is where they have ended up.

The skilled players are soft and and the hard to play against players (the few that they have) are not very skilled.

I can see Comeau and Jones muscling their way into the top 9 as they may have enough skill to play well with better linemates.

Right now with this lineup I can't see anyone except Jones playing head to head against the Thorton's of the League. As Thorton plays 20+ minutes for these games Jones gets at least top 9 minutes.

I can see Hartley explaining to Backlund and Stempniak and Stajan that they are not skillfull enough to keep a top 9 spot unless they show more grit....and show up and win a few puck battles and take the hits to make the play. These are the guys that can't be floating looking for the soft spot on the ice to cash in on someone else's hard work.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Brown - hit machine but a wuss when it comes to backing it up.
Ott - borderline top 6 on a good team
Brian Boyle - not top 6
Landeskog - he'll hit but won't drop the mitts.
Callahan - more physical than Iginla? get a grip.
Backes
Dubinsky - seriously? not even a top 6 last year.
Doan - certainly no more physical than Iginla or Glencross
Brouwer - top 6?.. if so, he shouldn't be on a decent team
Neil - GOON
Hanzal - band-aid... no thanks
Lucic
Hartnell
Getzlaff - no way he's more physical than Iginla
Kunitz - physicality is a myth with this guy
Clarkson - another boderline top 6, much worse skill wise than Flames top 6
E. Kane - not even close.. another myth
Folibgo - top 9 maybe


ie all guys that play in their teams top 6 and play tougher than anyone the Flames have including Iginla and Glencross.


Alll had more hits than Jackman.

Most of these guys aren't anywhere near as talented as Tanguay, Cammalleri, Cervenka & Hudler.

Just curious.. where are the Red Wings? Canucks? Hawks? Sharks?

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

not from the injury ward.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

I think they are hoping Hudler has more potential when he's given a bigger role than the one he had in Detroit.

[North East Goon]

We are placing way too many eggs in the Cervenka basket. This could turn into a disaster.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

In a more advanced society where bio-robotics eliminates those nasty injuries.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

Last season Hudler got 25 goals and 50 pts. The seasons before that were 10g 37pt, 23g 57pts, and 13g 42pts with a ppg season in the KHL in the mix there. Moss' last 4 seasons were 2g 9pts, 17g 30pt, 8g 17pt, and 20g 39pt. Granted Moss hasn't been nearly as healthy, but I don't think they're really comparable at all.

[Hells Bells]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

In a more advanced society where bio-robotics eliminates those nasty injuries.

No.

A healthy David Moss (if it exists) will never put up 50 points... EVER... His 20-19-39 season was as good as it gets.

Hudler is so much better than Moss that anyone that doesn't see it, has no clue about Jiri Hudler.

[Robbob]

I was meh initially on the signing but the more I think about it the more I think it could work out. It sure is good taking players from good teams instead of the Leafs and Panthers.

Defiantely will not be the same team from last year, which will make for an interesting season.

[OilKiller]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

Talent wise, I'm not sure how it's even close. I would take Hudler every day of the week.

[PeteLFan]

The more I think about it if he can even add 20 goals at even strength that's a huge huge boost. We where 24th in goals for 5 on 5 if you add 20 more goals we are 15th in the NHL.

I believe we where -23 5 on 5 we placed 25th in efficiency 5 on 5.

If we can add his 20 goals and get better defensively we will make the playoffs, but not as a 8th seed but much higher unless our specialty teams go down the toilet.

[flamesfan6]

Moss: 0.39 points per game, 0.19 goals per game

Hudler: 0.52 Points per game, 0.21 goals per game


I think I'd take Hudler 100% of the time over Moss

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by troutman

Don't have time to read the whole thread - but doesn't David Moss get you a similar number of goals and assists as Hudler?

David Moss would get close if he could stay healthy. However, he hasn't been able to do that so in reality, he usually won't.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

Moss: 0.39 points per game, 0.19 goals per game

Hudler: 0.52 Points per game, 0.21 goals per game


I think I'd take Hudler 100% of the time over Moss

Wow, much closer than I would have thought, and Moss certainly brings other things as well.

$2.1 M hit on Moss, $4 M hit on Hudler.

I understand Moss has been hurt, but I would have rather had him then both Stempniak and Comeau.

The Hudler signing really makes signing Stempniak not make much sense to me.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Hells Bells

Most of these guys aren't anywhere near as talented as Tanguay, Cammalleri, Cervenka & Hudler.

Just curious.. where are the Red Wings? Canucks? Hawks? Sharks?

I have no trouble with Tanguay and Cammalleri playing soft...... so long as they kick in 60+ points

The Canucks rely on Lapperrie for all their grit. Kesler plays the same level of physical game as Iginla.... The Canucks identified the problem they had even before LA ran them out of the playoffs and traded much more skillful softer Hodgson for Kassain.

The Wings had a few more hits as team last year than the Flames.

The Wings .... out muscled by nashville got rid of Hudler and added Tootoo. The Flames got rid of TomK and added Hudler

A lot of their physical play is provided by Kronwall and Stuart.... who are on the ice a lot of the time. Albekdar, Helm, Bertuzzi and Cleary while not bangers are tough to play against and hit more than the Flames forwards. The big thing with Detriot is that their skilled guys Zetterberg and Datsyuk are 5'11" 195 and built like brick outhouses. They do not need someone to play physical for them as do Cammalleri and Tanguay.

San Jose ... now that you brought it up, turned into no-hitters.... even Clowe stopped hitting..... they turned into the Flames.... great lineup on paper, they snuck into the playoffs and were steam rollered 4 straight after winning game 1 by the tougher Blues

E kane... not even close...... by that do you mean that he is in a different category that the Flames can't dare to dream of? Iginla 2002 vintage --- 173 hits in 74 games 30 goals +11 21 years old. Iginla and Glencross COMBINED for 204 hits 31 more than Kane by himself.


Kane is someone who can provide protection for a top line with 2 soft linemates. Jokinen will enjoy playing with him.

All your examples of teams you think the Flames may almost be as tough as won 5 playoff games amongst themselves. San Jose 1-4 Vancouver 1-4 Detroit 1-4 and Chicago managed to win 2 against Phoenix

[Hells Bells]

Moss couldn't even put up decent numbers playing with Iginla/Tanguay.

Hudler would do much better in that situation IMO.

[OilKiller]

CsInMyBlood defending Moss...now I've seen everything...

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Wow, much closer than I would have thought, and Moss certainly brings other things as well.

$2.1 M hit on Moss, $4 M hit on Hudler.

I understand Moss has been hurt, but I would have rather had him then both Stempniak and Comeau.

The Hudler signing really makes signing Stempniak not make much sense to me.

This season Moss' PPG was 0.28, Comeau's was 0.25, and Stempniak's was 0.45. So if you're going by PPG stats, wanting Moss over Comeau/Stempniak makes no sense.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Wow, much closer than I would have thought, and Moss certainly brings other things as well.

$2.1 M hit on Moss, $4 M hit on Hudler.

I understand Moss has been hurt, but I would have rather had him then both Stempniak and Comeau.

The Hudler signing really makes signing Stempniak not make much sense to me.

When Feaster signed Stempniak he thought he would get Prust instead of Hudler??

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

Moss: 0.39 points per game, 0.19 goals per game

Hudler: 0.52 Points per game, 0.21 goals per game


I think I'd take Hudler 100% of the time over Moss

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Wow, much closer than I would have thought, and Moss certainly brings other things as well.

$2.1 M hit on Moss, $4 M hit on Hudler.

I understand Moss has been hurt, but I would have rather had him then both Stempniak and Comeau.

The Hudler signing really makes signing Stempniak not make much sense to me.

It also has to be taken into consideration, that over their respective last 5 full NHL seasons:

Moss - 55.2 games per season average
Hudler - 78.6 games per season average

That doesn't include rookie seasons either (like the first season where Moss got called up mid season and played only 41 games)

So....

Hudler -> 78.6 x 0.52 = 40.87 points per season average
Moss -> 55.2 x 0.39 - 21.53 points per season average

In the end, because of Moss' inability to remain healthy, it's not really close at all.

...and I'm a Moss fan.