General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[landshark]

Originally Posted by valo403

I understand that. My point is that just standing outside a mall with pen and paper doesn't do the trick. I still think they'll get it, but there's some effort involved and with the general apathetic attitude most people have to these things the idea that this will be a quick afternoon's work is kind of far fetched.

From what experience do you speak? Getting the minimum signature requirement within hours of the effort beginning is rather commonplace. It's often used as a first shot across the bow in the publicity battle. I guarantee that a few dozen people with clipboards will get 2000 signatures for THIS issue in one day - probably double the min. Sure, it needs to go through verification and that'll take a day or two. And I wouldn't call tea party minions an apathetic group.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by valo403

Did you read it? There are formalities that must be complied with, you seem to think this is as simple as signing your name on a sheet of paper. Read title 19 again, particularly 19-112.

Maybe I'm missing something but I read it and I see nothing more than signing your name/contact info for the voter. It seems pretty typical.

There is compliance requirements for the petitioner/circulator to validate the reams of signatures but really there is no hassle factor for Joe Blow than a quick howdoyoudo and sign here.

From statute:
C. The person before whom the signatures, names and addresses were written on the signature sheet shall, on the affidavit form pursuant to this section, subscribe and swear before a notary public that each of the names on the sheet was signed and the name and address were printed by the elector and the circulator on the date indicated, and that in his belief each signer was a qualified elector of a certain county of the state, or, in the case of a city, town or county measure, of the city, town or county affected by the measure on the date indicated, and that at all times during circulation of the signature sheet a copy of the title and text was attached to the signature sheet....

[seattleflamer]

Valo luckily doesn't live in an Initiative/Proposition state so he's never experienced this process on a daily basis.

There are people who do this for a living. It is democracy gone amok and it is part of the political landscape of state/local gov't in the West.

They will get those signatures very easily.

[Jordan!]

So according to landsharks RIDICULOUS estimation. Joe Cobb should be done getting all 2000-ish sigs today.

[dash_pinched]

You gotta love some of the names that have been involved in this 3+ year fiasco. From Redfield T. Baum to Elaine Scruggs to Dean Fink and now Joe Cobb. At times it's been exhausting, but also quite entertaining.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

So according to landsharks RIDICULOUS estimation. Joe Cobb should be done getting all 2000-ish sigs today.

I hardly think that even breaks the top 20 of ridiculous things that have already happened in this saga. Either way, we'll see if it gets done or not shortly.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

So according to landsharks RIDICULOUS estimation. Joe Cobb should be done getting all 2000-ish sigs today.

Why is it ridiculous? I would imagine it wouldnt take long at all to get that many signatures.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Muta

Doesn't it though? It affects people who would like to see a healthy hockey team return to a hockey-based city. If you watch future Nordiques games on TV for your personal satisfaction, it does affect your life directly.

Plus, 30 healthy teams is much better for the success of the league than 29 healthy teams no matter how you look at it. Even if you don't think it affects your life directly, the issue is higher than that... and some people look at it as such.

I really don't see how I would get more satisfaction out of watching a game on my TV played in city A over city B. As for the health of the league, I'll leave the decision on what course of action is better for that to the people who have hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why would I throw a tantrum? Unless they're moving into MSG the location of the Coyotes has absolutely zero impact on my life, which I'm pretty sure is the same amount it has on yours.

Somehow discussing the multiple legal and business issues at play means I'm "fervently behind this team sucking up dollars in the glendale", which I have to admit is a very novel argument.

Oh please. Every post of yours in this thread has a spin on it in favour of the team staying in Phoenix/Glendale.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

So according to landsharks RIDICULOUS estimation. Joe Cobb should be done getting all 2000-ish sigs today.

~2000 signatures until July 8 is the only one that matters.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Valo luckily doesn't live in an Initiative/Proposition state so he's never experienced this process on a daily basis.

There are people who do this for a living. It is democracy gone amok and it is part of the political landscape of state/local gov't in the West.

They will get those signatures very easily.

Perhaps I'm just overestimating the apathy of the population. Just seems to me that getting 10% of the people who bother to vote to get on board isn't as easy of a task as it's been made out to be when so many people seem completely disinterested.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

Oh please. Every post of yours in this thread has a spin on it in favour of the team staying in Phoenix/Glendale.

Including this one:

I really don't see how I would get more satisfaction out of watching a game on my TV played in city A over city B. As for the health of the league, I'll leave the decision on what course of action is better for that to the people who have hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

There are numerous posts with the same sentiment. I could not care less where any but a handful of teams play their games.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by valo403

I really don't see how I would get more satisfaction out of watching a game on my TV played in city A over city B.

Well, I know that I would rather watch a Nordique game filled with hardcore fans on TV. I like watching Canadian teams more, and will watch them when they return. Presently, I do not watch the Coyotes and nor do I intend to.

[Daradon]

As someone who did a significant amount of charity canvassing (not political mind you, but, signatures should really be easier than donations anyway) for two years several years back, anyone with half a game plan should be able to rustle up 2000 sigs in 5 business days at the longest with a minimal amount of help. They could probably do it themselves in a lot of cases. Depending on where they are allowed to set-up etc. and what rules they need to follow.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, I know that I would rather watch a Nordique game filled with hardcore fans on TV. I like watching Canadian teams more, and will watch them when they return. Presently, I do not watch the Coyotes and nor do I intend to.

Due strictly to geography?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Daradon

The big question is, is the leagues stance on this going to change after they take control of the Devils?

I know Bettman doesn't have any actual power, but you gotta believe most of those on the BoG take his recommendations, even look to him for leadership. With the league owning two franchises I gotta think the BoG/owners are going to start wanting better and quicker answers to the leagues problems.

The league is not taking ownership of the Devils, they are rumoured to be taking over operational control. It would be similar to the Dallas Stars mess, where the league was said to have basically operated the team and facilitated a sale. The current owner of the Devils will remain the owner until that sale resolves. Another example would be MLB taking over the LA Dodgers following the previous owners' divorce fiasco.

[landshark]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

So according to landsharks RIDICULOUS estimation. Joe Cobb should be done getting all 2000-ish sigs today.

What is the problem with my assessment? You live in the west too - you've had to wade through signature seekers to get into the grocery store. 2000 is 40 people with clipboards each getting 50 signatures. Cobb could do that easily in one day if they wanted to - if they chose to hurry it.

I'm not wishing for the yotes to fail - I'm just adding info to the conversation. Don't take it personally.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The league is not taking ownership of the Devils, they are rumoured to be taking over operational control. It would be similar to the Dallas Stars mess, where the league was said to have basically operated the team and facilitated a sale. The current owner of the Devils will remain the owner until that sale resolves. Another example would be MLB taking over the LA Dodgers following the previous owners' divorce fiasco.

Yeah, Valo already mentioned that. I asked for clarification cause I'm not exactly sure what that means. Does that means the team owners are still on the hook for losses? Or does the NHL help offset that? (Or perhaps each deal is a little different and the public is never really privy to it?) As well, they are still in 'control' of Dallas aren't they?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by valo403

Due strictly to geography?

Yep. So I do have a vested interest in what happens here, if nothing else but for my own selfish gain. Whatever it is, I'd rather watch the Nordiques play than the Coyotes, and I bet I'm not alone on that sentiment.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

Oh please. Every post of yours in this thread has a spin on it in favour of the team staying in Phoenix/Glendale.

There are certainly plenty of anti-Phoenix zealots in this thread. The problem with zealotry is that any opinion that does not offer complete support of the zealot's views is treated as an extremist viewpoint the other way. Valo is not operating from the "OMFGIDONTCAREWHATTHEISSUESAREMOVETHETEAMALREA DY" viewpoint, but for people like you, that is enough to assign that other-extreme point of view. That does not make it a fact in reality, however.