Nova Scotia student suspended over "Life is wasted without Jesus" t-shirt

[Knalus]

I recall an argument that stated that atheism is not a religion, it is an absence of religion. Hence it is not religious in nature.

This T shirt is not referring any specific religion, it is referring to an absence of a specific part of one. As we know, an absence of something is not the same as being something.

Therefore, his T-shirt cannot be referring to other religions. Because it is not referring to other religions, it should not fall afoul of the rules.

Which is why I think he was not originally suspended for wearing the T-shirt. It was his further actions which pointed out his intention behind the T-shirt, which is why he was ultimately suspended. In essence, he made the contents of the T-shirt offensive, it wasn't inherently offensive in and of itself. At least from my understanding of the situation as described in this thread.

Which is why I believe the National Organization for Atheists opposes the suspension. I would guess it is because they believe their actions (or planned actions) revolve around an absence of religion, as opposed to "actual" religion, and in their view being offended by being aggressive in one's speech should not be penalized.

[CKPThunder]

Originally Posted by photon

"without Jesus" means not having accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour thereby bridging the gap between a Holy God and a sinful man and saving you from eternal separation from God and eternal damnation. I'm not sure how that could be NOT religious.

I think this is stretching it just a bit. As someone posted earlier, the school must be using the shirt to try and get this student to stop his evangelism. The shirt on its own isn't offensive. The word 'Jesus' is just a name. It's not a popular name in North America but it is a name that is used. What if a girl made a shirt that said "Life is wasted without Jesus" because her boyfriend's name is Jesus? I could probably see an argument against the shirt if it said Jesus Christ instead of just Jesus.

If a student had a shirt on that said "Life is wasted without Joseph", would that offend anyone? Probably not, but what if you knew he was Mormon and he was shoving his doctrine down your throat all the time and you knew he was referring to Joseph Smith? The person shoving his doctrine down your throat is offending you but his shirt isn't but why not use the shirt to try and get this guy to stop?

Having said that, it's obvious who this student is referring to because of his past but if the school is going to ban the shirt they have to judge the writing on the shirt alone and not the person who was wearing it.

[Coys1882]

Nice to see a Jesus T-shirt can still ruffle some feathers like it did in the 90s. I had the one below which upset a few people at my high school:

[jammies]

Clearly the solution is for the kid to legally change his name to Jesus, and hope that instead of school suspensions, he convinces hot chicks it's ok to sleep with him.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by blankall

However, one student quietly expressing his beliefs by wearing a pro-Jesus t-shirt really doesn't bother me in the slightest.

In all hoensty the shirt he wore wouldn't bother me either. I'd actually laugh if someone actually thought what his shirt said but I could see how some people in other religions would take offence to it and that's the problem. You are going to a public school you have to follow their rules. Just like someone who worked a government job wouldn't get away with that shirt and shouldn't.

And you could bet that if someone came to school with a "Life is wasted with Allah" christians in the school would be all over that person.

[MoneyGuy]

Ha, one of my best friends is from Nova Scotia and has the same surname as the suspended kid. Might be a relative. Odd fact: THere are at least three different spellings of that surname and they're related. My friend has a brother who spells his last name differently than my friend does. Only in Nova Scotia.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Ha, one of my best friends is from Nova Scotia and has the same surname as the suspended kid. Might be a relative. Odd fact: THere are at least three different spellings of that surname and they're related. My friend has a brother who spells his last name differently than my friend does. Only in Nova Scotia.

I've heard of related families spelling their names differently like McDonald or MacDonald or Macdonald or Mcdonald. Don't kid yourselves, we're all sorts of crazy out here... fun though

[HELPNEEDED]

dumbest thing every. He is free to do what he wants, its not like he's hurting anyone.

Or she.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Which is why I think he was not originally suspended for wearing the T-shirt. It was his further actions which pointed out his intention behind the T-shirt, which is why he was ultimately suspended. In essence, he made the contents of the T-shirt offensive, it wasn't inherently offensive in and of itself. At least from my understanding of the situation as described in this thread.

They asked him to remove the shirt in the first place because it went against the rules of the school, so it was inherently offensive in and of itself in the view of the people making the decision (or rather that it violated the laid out rules for shirts, regardless of how offensive it was).

But yes his actions after that and non-compliance was what got him suspended.

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

I think this is stretching it just a bit. As someone posted earlier, the school must be using the shirt to try and get this student to stop his evangelism.

Doubtful, he can evangelize all he wants as long as he doesn't disrupt class or cause problems with it. The shirt violates the rules, no secret ulterior motive is required.

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

The shirt on its own isn't offensive.

To some it is. If your standard of what is and isn't offensive is superior to theirs you'll have to make a case for that to get anyone to accept that.

The shirt says life following any other religion other than Christianity is wasted. Not that offensive, but it goes against the rules and the rules are reasonable.

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

The word 'Jesus' is just a name.

Not even the kid is using this line of reasoning in his defense.

[photon]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

He is free to do what he wants

No he isn't. Or I guess more accurately he's not free of the consequences of doing what he wants.

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

its not like he's hurting anyone.

Rules like this are put in place not for the cases where it's very close to the line, they're put in place for cases where it's clearly over the line and disruptive.

But as soon as you draw a line, you will always have cases like this. If they ignore it then the line moves. So they have to at least try to figure out what falls on which side of the line.

If the kid was being reasonable he would appreciate that and understand that it's a subjective call, not everyone will exactly agree, but the effort to make sure shirts like "Life is wasted if you're not white" (which is the same phrase, just substituting race for religion) aren't worn has merit, and that he can just wear all his other shirts which advocate for his chosen religion that he's allowed to wear.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by photon

They asked him to remove the shirt in the first place because it went against the rules of the school, so it was inherently offensive in and of itself in the view of the people making the decision (or rather that it violated the laid out rules for shirts, regardless of how offensive it was).

But yes his actions after that and non-compliance was what got him suspended.

I'm not so sure about that. It's likely a situation like where the puck may or may not have crossed the goal line, but is obstructed by the spray from a skate. They likely asked him in order to not have to make that call. His actions following are what pushed it over the edge.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Wow HP, comparing people who care about their traditional culture to Hitler? That is hateful bigotry if I've ever seen it. You should work for the ADL.

You should read my post more carefully, but let me clarify anyways.

It is well known that minoritiy groups have struggled to be recognized in past decades, but that was then and this is now. I said the pendulum has swung too far...I guess you missed that part...and I "didn't care" to get into a law history discussion with valo403. He doesn't actually post any opinions or ideas of his own but would rather attack others he disagrees with.

I keep asking for these examples of the "pendulum swinging too far," asking for some examples of "western moral tradition" being undermined and minimized or outright destroyed, but you keep giving nothing. So are you going to defend your position with actual fact or not? If you can't, then why are you still spouting this nonsense?

[Mr.Coffee]

if you are offended by somebody else's T-shirt, you are the problem (and a little bitch).

Stop crying, worry about something relevant.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lobotroth

Spoiler!

so true, and the crux of this thread. Nobody cares if you're offended. It doesn't matter. Who the hell are you and why should anyone care?

If I wore a shirt that said life isn't complete without the colour orange, who would give a F.

I once owned a shirt that said "nobody likes vegetarians". It is a joke, and one time in the mall a shop employee was scowling and said to me that her daughter was a vegetarian. I didn't even know how to respond. I was thinking about writing an apology letter so she could give it to her daughter but then remembered it didn't matter and I'd never met her and this person was an idiot and the whole situation was rather hilarious.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

I keep asking for these examples of the "pendulum swinging too far,"

Well, there is this kid in Nova Scotia who was suspended because he wore a shirt that supposedly offended people who don't believe in Jesus ....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

so true, and the crux of this thread. Nobody cares if you're offended. It doesn't matter. Who the hell are you and why should anyone care?

If I wore a shirt that said life isn't complete without the colour orange, who would give a F.

I once owned a shirt that said "nobody likes vegetarians". It is a joke, and one time in the mall a shop employee was scowling and said to me that her daughter was a vegetarian. I didn't even know how to respond. I was thinking about writing an apology letter so she could give it to her daughter but then remembered it didn't matter and I'd never met her and this person was an idiot and the whole situation was rather hilarious.

Ask him if she tastes like carrots then run.

What an idiotic thing for him to say, who cares.

There's a difference between being offended and being a prick

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

You mean there's a correlation between a slogan speaking of tolerance and acceptance and one proclaiming everyone else's life is a waste if they don't believe in the God they believe in?

Tell me more.

But it doesn't say YOUR life is wasted - so why would you think it's about you. That part of the problem - maybe it's just his life that is wasted without Jesus.

Anyone who gets offended by it is part of the problem.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

if you are offended by somebody else's T-shirt, you are the problem

Too bad being offended has nothing to do with what happened, otherwise you might have a point.

[photon]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

But it doesn't say YOUR life is wasted - so why would you think it's about you.

Because that's the way the grammar works, that's the belief the religion holds, and that's the opinion the student was actively putting forward.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

That part of the problem - maybe it's just his life that is wasted without Jesus.

They explicitly said that if it said "My life" it wouldn't be a problem. He could have changed it to fit within the rules and none of this would be an issue, he could still wear his now positive t-shirt.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Anyone who gets offended by it is part of the problem.

They didn't do it because someone got offended.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

It's over your line, that's fair. It's not over my line or the Captain's. Where is the line? If the shirt had attacked another religion then absolutely that is over the line. But it can only be interpreted as attacking (I can see how it can be seen that way). Maybe I am missing something here.

The crux of this argument seems to be that attacking another religion is not okay, but attacking all other religions and atheism is. Very odd.