Healthcare in America

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Azure

Outside of some infrastructure and the military, most of those things are locally handled.

And don't think for a second that billions upon billions of dollars aren't wasted in those 'federal' run programs.

I agree with the idea of a universal health care system, just not one that the federal government looks after.

so have the federal government establish guidelines and let the states manage how it's administered. my point is that arguing against the very idea of universal healthcare strictly on the basis that the US federal government is incompetent is ridiculous

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Actually the combo of the insurance plan from my work and my wifes work all costs were covered.

and apologies if I missed this...how much do the both of you pay together for your privilege?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

so have the federal government establish guidelines and let the states manage how it's administered. my point is that arguing against the very idea of universal healthcare strictly on the basis that the US federal government is incompetent is ridiculous

Indeed. But nobody seems to want to go down that route in the US.

[Cheese]

I can honestly say that I have never had an issue with the Canadian Medical system. When I or my family members had serious issues, there was no wait at all. When we needed stitches we had to wait....
We are still alive and very well and it didnt cost us 1 cent. To save the extra 2 or 3 hours I waited and have to pay an additional $400-500 month for that privilege doesnt make sense to me...but who am I to say.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

Indeed. But nobody seems to want to go down that route in the US.

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
so have the federal government establish guidelines and let the states manage how it's administered. my point is that arguing against the very idea of universal healthcare strictly on the basis that the US federal government is incompetent is ridiculous


There is universal healthcare in the 'States. It is called Medicare but it covers only those 65 and up. It also happens to be very popular as you can imagine with Seniors.

Unfortunately it is grossly underfunded and will run out of money before Social Security because of underfunding and spiraling healthcare costs.

Part of the big entitlement/debt/deficit debate....

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
so have the federal government establish guidelines and let the states manage how it's administered. my point is that arguing against the very idea of universal healthcare strictly on the basis that the US federal government is incompetent is ridiculous


There is universal healthcare in the 'States. It is called Medicare but it covers only those 65 and up. It also happens to be very popular as you can be imagine with Seniors.

Unfortunately it is grossly underfunded and will run out of money before Social Security because of underfunding and spiraling healthcare costs.

Part of the big entitlement/debt/deficient debate....

Don't forget they also have Medicaid for those who qualify (ie. those who don't make a certain amount of money per year). The thing with both Medicaid and Medicare it covers more things than even the Canadian health care system.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Don't forget they also have Medicaid for those who qualify (ie. those who don't make a certain amount of money per year). The thing with both Medicaid and Medicare it covers more things than even the Canadian health care system.

I can't think of anything not covered in Canada apart from breast and penis enlargments

[Ice]

The healthcare system down here will never change because the lobbyists have a hold on Washington. If healthcare reform is even mentioned, the insurance companies break out their scare tactics of less doctors, wait times for surgeries, lives lost, threats of people with ongoing health problems losing coverage, etc.

On the other side, the American government has show the American people over and over again that our politicians, who are supposed to be looking out for what is best for their congressional districts or states, only care about what they can gain financially from holding public office. I don't know anyone who would trust this goverment to effectively run a national health care system.

Should something change? Absolutely. Will it? Highly unlikely in my lifetime.

I will say, that I have never had any complaints about the healthcare situation with myself and my family. We pay for our family plan, we pay deductibles, we choose to pay higher premiums for the freedom to have 100% choice in doctors, hospitals, treatments, prescriptions, etc. I choose to have a plan where I rarely wait to be seen by a doctor, I can get an appointment the next day or same day and I don't wait for MRI's, Catscans, ultrasounds, etc. We've been in car accidents, had ambulance rides, hospital stays, hockey injuries, etc. and while there were out of pocket expenses, it couldn't be near enough to bankrupt the average American. I pay 30.00 per month for supplemental insurance for major medical or cancer treatment. This will ensure that should a major health issue arise, we will not be bankrupted. Its not perfect, and its not free, but 30 bucks per month is well worth peace of mind knowing I won't have to decide between medical treatment or keeping my house.

I had cheaper insurance when I was younger. I chose an HMO because it was cheaper. My first pregnancy cost me a total of $8.00 from the time I had a blood test to confirm until I was released from the hospital after delivery. I received excellent care, but in an HMO medical office, you wait....and wait...sometimes 45 minutes beyond your appointment time. My second child cost a total of $158.00, because I chose to pay 150 for a private room so my two year old wouldn't have to be quiet becuase there was someone else in our room.

I think there are horror stories and satisfied patients on both sides of this. I think both sides could use improvment. I think private healthcare is probably a bigger mess and more impossible to fix, but I don't know enough about Canada's healthcare system to weigh in on what needs to be changed there.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Don't forget they also have Medicaid for those who qualify (ie. those who don't make a certain amount of money per year). The thing with both Medicaid and Medicare it covers more things than even the Canadian health care system.

Shhhh. That's a big secret. They don't wan't you to know that...or the fact that people on medicaid, and other low income folks, don't actually pay any income tax.

[driveway]

Having had some experience with the Taiwanese health-care system (Universal, Federal Government Provider), I have to say I've been impressed so far.

A few months ago I had a ragged cough which lasted for weeks and weeks (6 to 8 weeks). When I went to the hospital to get a diagnosis around week 5 I had an excellent experience. Because of my employment status here, I'm covered by the National plan.

In the space of an hour and forty-five minutes I was processed, had seen a doctor, had an x-ray, had blood taken, seen a specialist and been returned to my first doctor for preliminary diagnosis and been issued a prescription. Cost me about $40.00 CAN for the prescriptions and they loaded me up with stuff; symptom relief and antibiotics.

And this is the service I received without being able to speak a lick of Chinese. Granted, this is in Taipei where the population warrants large multi-service hospitals, but I was stunned at the speed and efficiency with which I was processed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Shhhh. That's a big secret. They don't wan't you to know that...or the fact that people on medicaid, and other low income folks, don't actually pay any income tax.

I thought literally everyone that uses Medicaid doesn't pay income taxes.

One of the biggest reasons it is extremely underfunded.

[photon]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I can't think of anything not covered in Canada apart from breast and penis enlargments

Teeth!

I've never understood why dental health isn't covered. My sister had a cleft palette which was covered by health care, but now as an adult needs super expensive related dental work but isn't covered now.

Like U.S. hospital annual salary level $$, it's a huge negative impact on her.

[Azure]

What are dental plans like? I actually have no idea. Never needed dental work outside of the normal checkup and cleaning which I just pay the $75 bucks every year.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

I thought literally everyone that uses Medicaid doesn't pay income taxes.

One of the biggest reasons it is extremely underfunded.

The funny thing about the whole concept of income tax is one actually needs to earn income before you pay the darn thing.

But I suppose there is the thought that these free loaders who qualify for medicaid like, you know, the poor elderly, minor children, the blind, the permanently disabled should get their act together. They too need work and pay for their health insurance like the rest of us hard working taxpayers. /green text

It is hardly an incentive to get medicaid since it means you're at or near the poverty level ($17K for a family of 3) with very basic care.

Hospitals and doctors don't even necessarily like to take medicare patients, at least in WA state, because of the low reimbursement rates versus, say, the numerous amounts of Canadians on medical vacations getting hip replacement surgery.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ice

The healthcare system down here will never change because the lobbyists have a hold on Washington. If healthcare reform is even mentioned, the insurance companies break out their scare tactics of less doctors, wait times for surgeries, lives lost, threats of people with ongoing health problems losing coverage, etc.

On the other side, the American government has show the American people over and over again that our politicians, who are supposed to be looking out for what is best for their congressional districts or states, only care about what they can gain financially from holding public office. I don't know anyone who would trust this goverment to effectively run a national health care system.

Should something change? Absolutely. Will it? Highly unlikely in my lifetime.

I will say, that I have never had any complaints about the healthcare situation with myself and my family. We pay for our family plan, we pay deductibles, we choose to pay higher premiums for the freedom to have 100% choice in doctors, hospitals, treatments, prescriptions, etc. I choose to have a plan where I rarely wait to be seen by a doctor, I can get an appointment the next day or same day and I don't wait for MRI's, Catscans, ultrasounds, etc. We've been in car accidents, had ambulance rides, hospital stays, hockey injuries, etc. and while there were out of pocket expenses, it couldn't be near enough to bankrupt the average American. I pay 30.00 per month for supplemental insurance for major medical or cancer treatment. This will ensure that should a major health issue arise, we will not be bankrupted. Its not perfect, and its not free, but 30 bucks per month is well worth peace of mind knowing I won't have to decide between medical treatment or keeping my house.

I had cheaper insurance when I was younger. I chose an HMO because it was cheaper. My first pregnancy cost me a total of $8.00 from the time I had a blood test to confirm until I was released from the hospital after delivery. I received excellent care, but in an HMO medical office, you wait....and wait...sometimes 45 minutes beyond your appointment time. My second child cost a total of $158.00, because I chose to pay 150 for a private room so my two year old wouldn't have to be quiet becuase there was someone else in our room.

I think there are horror stories and satisfied patients on both sides of this. I think both sides could use improvment. I think private healthcare is probably a bigger mess and more impossible to fix, but I don't know enough about Canada's healthcare system to weigh in on what needs to be changed there.

But just out of curiosity, what do you pay per month for that ideal health care scenario? Unless that's too personal, then just call me a jackass.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Personal anecdote time:

My sister-in-law grew up in Saskatchewan, completed a graduate and post-graduate degree at UBC, and is now a tenured professor at a well-known and prestigious university in the US. She has first-hand experience with public healthcare in two Canadian provinces and private healthcare in America. Despite receiving an excellent insurance plan as a benefit of being a faculty member, she still has to pay for a portion of her insurance benefits. She claims she now pays more in taxes + private health insurance than she paid in taxes (a portion of which went to health coverage) while living in Canada. She also claims the quality of service is worse in the US.

That's just one person's story, so I advise you to take any anecdote with the appropriate grain of salt. Her experience is backed up by statistics, though. Comparative studies have shown that Canadian patients receive equal or better health outcomes than Americans with the same condition, and our single-payer non-profit system is significantly more cost-efficient.

Her opinion is invalid as she is clearly a Liberal/Socialist

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Ice

.

I will say, that I have never had any complaints about the healthcare situation with myself and my family. We pay for our family plan, we pay deductibles, we choose to pay higher premiums for the freedom to have 100% choice in doctors, hospitals, treatments, prescriptions, etc. I choose to have a plan where I rarely wait to be seen by a doctor, I can get an appointment the next day or same day and I don't wait for MRI's, Catscans, ultrasounds, etc. We've been in car accidents, had ambulance rides, hospital stays, hockey injuries, etc. and while there were out of pocket expenses, it couldn't be near enough to bankrupt the average American. I pay 30.00 per month for supplemental insurance for major medical or cancer treatment. This will ensure that should a major health issue arise, we will not be bankrupted. Its not perfect, and its not free, but 30 bucks per month is well worth peace of mind knowing I won't have to decide between medical treatment or keeping my house.

.

How much coverage do you get?
Are you covered with endless money or is there only so much you can get.
I would imagine that if you had a serious health issue that amount would get burned through very quick.
What if it is cancer and you survive but six years later it comes back? Do you get covered again? Does Obamacare make sure that you can now be covered?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

so have the federal government establish guidelines and let the states manage how it's administered. my point is that arguing against the very idea of universal healthcare strictly on the basis that the US federal government is incompetent is ridiculous

I don't think anyone has done that.

What they (we) have done is expressed great concern over the US Government's ability to pull it off.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

The funny thing about the whole concept of income tax is one actually needs to earn income before you pay the darn thing.

But I suppose there is the thought that these free loaders who qualify for medicaid like, you know, the poor elderly, minor children, the blind, the permanently disabled should get their act together. They too need work and pay for their health insurance like the rest of us hard working taxpayers. /green text

It is hardly an incentive to get medicaid since it means you're at or near the poverty level ($17K for a family of 3) with very basic care.

Hospitals and doctors don't even necessarily like to take medicare patients, at least in WA state, because of the low reimbursement rates versus, say, the numerous amounts of Canadians on medical vacations getting hip replacement surgery.

This is true, but it is also true that there is an outlfow of income tax revenue to these folks despite their lack of income.

I don't have a problem with that either. Even benefitted from it as a young guy with a family. What I do have a problem with is politicians telling me that these same people are paying a disproportionate amount of taxes AND have no health care available to them.

Both are lies. I like honesty.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I can't think of anything not covered in Canada apart from breast and penis enlargments

Really? When did Canada start covering advil, tylenol, etc.?