Healthcare in America

[La Flames Fan]

Just happened across this article which is a very good read. I'm excited to read his book.

Edit (the article): http://www.atlantamagazine.com/featu...spx?ID=1648804

But don’t some people believe that all this money buys us the best healthcare in the world? When we look at outcomes, such as life expectancy, we rank fiftieth. We have very high infant mortality rates. Even if you look at white male life expectancy in the U.S., it’s lower than places like Canada, whose healthcare system we criticize. We have tremendously more CT and MRI scanners than Canada per capita. People in the United States may not live longer than people in Canada, but we sure as hell do a better job taking pictures of them. We do not get what we pay for out of our healthcare system.

It got me thinking to the state of healthcare in America and in my opinion what a disaster "for profit" insurance is. In an excerpt from the book a woman who noticed a lump on her breast doesn't seek medical help because of her job, insurance affordability etc...

Her breast simply falls off on its own.

Edna has stage IV breast cancer. Disease has spread all over her body. Had she come to see me early in the course of her disease, it would have cost about $30,000 to cure her. She could have remained a taxpayer. Her kids could have had a mother. Now, the cure is not an option. Still, we’ll fight. We will give her breast-cancer chemotherapy that will cost more than $150,000, even though the chances are she will still die in less than two years.

It seems so ridiculous that profit is more important than the health of the people.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

What bugs me the most about people who argue against public healthcare in the US is that they almost always fall back on the argument of "Well I don't want some government beureaucart deciding what kind of treatment I get".

I have no idea why anyone would think that is better than some beureaucrat at a for profit company is a better option.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

What bugs me the most about people who argue against public healthcare in the US is that they almost always fall back on the argument of "Well I don't want some government beureaucart deciding what kind of treatment I get".

I have no idea why anyone would think that is better than some beureaucrat at a for profit company is a better option.

I had that conversation with an American when I was in Mexico in November and he gave me that exact answer. Couldn't believe it. I was going to offer up the same counter-argument but it really seemed like a waste of breath so we moved on to how much better the American Banking system is compared to ours

[valo403]

I have a great health insurance plan and I still think the system is absurd

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

What bugs me the most about people who argue against public healthcare in the US is that they almost always fall back on the argument of "Well I don't want some government beureaucart deciding what kind of treatment I get".

I have no idea why anyone would think that is better than some beureaucrat at a for profit company is a better option.

Yep, and it's unbelievable how many americans follow this line of thinking. Blows my mind.

[Dion]

An interesting read about American vs Canadian health care

Consider the bogeyman of the meddlesome government bureaucrat, who in some TV ads stands — quite literally — between patients and their doctors, smiling and waving his finger — nuh uh uh — as he nixes this or that procedure. Yet, the only time in my life that I have ever had to plead my case for health treatment to a bureaucrat was when I lived in New York City.

I had purchased out-of-country medical coverage from a private insurance company in Toronto, where I normally live, for the time I would be spending in the USA. Health care their way

As luck would have it, I had an attack of appendicitis while I was alone on the fourth-floor of an apartment building. The issue I had to clear on the phone with the insurance company was whether I was allowed to call an ambulance, given that I was in too much pain to walk. That conversation, in turn, evolved into a debate about whether I was experiencing a pre-existing condition, which was difficult for me to articulate or even ponder. (Projectile vomiting will do that.)

Eventually, it was deemed permissible. Hurrah. Whereupon the only lasting harm done was my ongoing fear that I might ever get sick again on a private insurance company's dime. To me, it was a novelty and a horror to have to justify my experience of suffering to a stranger who seemed more concerned about the company's bottom line than my pain.

Why hadn't that ever happened to me in Toronto? Because our government funds health care, but doesn't micromanage it. There isn't the case-by-case nickel-and-diming that many American patients experience with HMOs. All doctors and specialists are available to us. When my daughter needed a hernia operation, our pediatrician felt that one particular Toronto hospital was best for that procedure — and off we went.

The point is not that the Canadian system is superior, per se, but that in many ways it feels freer, and more humane. Canadians believe that no individual's frailty should be profited from unless that individual chooses to allow someone to profit. That is a core belief. It is why we voted the politician Tommy Douglas, actor Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather and an early advocate of universal health care, to be called "Greatest Canadian."

A uniquely American fear

Many Canadians have private benefits to cover prescription drugs, dental care and visits to chiropractors or marriage counselors. This affords them more choice without draining the public coffers. But the bedrock upon which the system continues to grow is the belief that no citizen should ever have to choose between health care and rent, or between her care and that of her children.

As long as Americans continue to lack consensus at this bedrock level, there will be no clarity to the objectives for reform. Rumors, slanders and tangential, confusing arguments about scary bureaucrats and oppressed foreigners pining for Dr. House will be the death of the debate.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.ac...81474977787302

[Azure]

Considering how incompetent the US government is, are you all really surprised that Americans don't want them running a universal health care system?

People love to bury their head in the sand, and us Canadians aren't much better considering we're running into a major spending problem with our health care system, and we prefer to re-elect the governments that silence the doctors that speak out against the government and how the health care system is being run.

When I have to sit for 6 hours in a waiting room to get 6 stitches for a minor cut, I certainly won't get up on any pedestal and brag about how much better our universal public health care system is.

[Displaced Flames fan]

All I know is that given what my family is going through at the moment I am damn glad I have the insurance I do as opposed to whatever disaster of a plan the US government will come up with.

We won't have to wait for anything, and time is our biggest enemy.

Sometimes, the grass isn't always greener. It's easy to sit up there across the border and laugh at my opinions, but you're not living it. You have a system that you've grown up with.

I worked my ass off to secure a good job with great insurance.

I speak only for my situation and not all Americans.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

All I know is that given what my family is going through at the moment I am damn glad I have the insurance I do as opposed to whatever disaster of a plan the US government will come up with.

We won't have to wait for anything, and time is our biggest enemy.

Sometimes, the grass isn't always greener. It's easy to sit up there across the border and laugh at my opinions, but you're not living it. You have a system that you've grown up with.

I worked my ass off to secure a good job with great insurance.

I speak only for my situation and not all Americans.

That is a great point if only those without/less insurance would have worked as hard as you

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

That is a great point if only those without/less insurance would have worked as hard as you

Not at all what I was saying and I made that clear. Thanks for trying to make me look like a selfish ass though. That's very friendly of you.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Azure

Considering how incompetent the US government is, are you all really surprised that Americans don't want them running a universal health care system?

People love to bury their head in the sand, and us Canadians aren't much better considering we're running into a major spending problem with our health care system, and we prefer to re-elect the governments that silence the doctors that speak out against the government and how the health care system is being run.

When I have to sit for 6 hours in a waiting room to get 6 stitches for a minor cut, I certainly won't get up on any pedestal and brag about how much better our universal public health care system is.

*gets on pedestal*

In the last year, I had emergency surgery on my intestines ~2 months into a new job. Under the American system, this could have resulted in me being up to my eyeballs in debt until my fifties and potentially receive inferior treatment that could have seriously diminished my quality of life permanently. Under the Canadian system, I got top shelf treatment and never saw a hospital bill. They may fudge the little things and there is clear room for improvement, but they are getting a lot of the big things right.

Random thoughts:

There's also an intangible economic benefit to having a healthy and productive workforce.

I just paid $1.88 (got my health insurance now) for $3000 (street value) of percocet.

[Table 5]

One of the bigger problem in the US is that insurance coverage has monetary limits. And once that limit is reached, you're out on your ass. Which is fine if you need some surgery, but becomes an issue as soon as you have a long-term illness.

You might wait a longer time in Canada, but the one thing that health care system will never do is cripple you and your family financially.

Here's a little tidbit from a Harvard study. 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the US are medical related. And of those, 78% had some form of health insurance.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Not at all what I was saying and I made that clear. Thanks for trying to make me look like a selfish ass though. That's very friendly of you.

It wasn't hard

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

It wasn't hard

Again, not at all what I said and it was clear. You failed miserably.

Insurance was a key component in choosing where I work when at a crossroads and now I'm damn glad I chose the way I did.

[Table 5]

You shouldn't have to work hard to get good medical insurance...it should never be tied to your station in life or what you've done with it. Basic decent health care should be one of those things that really should be a universal right imo. People don't deserve a lot of things, but not having people suffer is something we should all try to work towards.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You shouldn't have to work hard to get good medical insurance. Basic decent health care should be one of those things that really should be a universal right.

Of course. That doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Canada does a fine job. Does that mean America can too? I have no confidence in our ability to pull that off.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Canada does a fine job. Does that mean America can too? I have no confidence in our ability to pull that off.

I don't either. There's way too much money to be made in the current system to every really fix the problem. American health care would only be fixed with a complete reboot.

[nickerjones]

Let me give you my situation to further prove the American healthcare sucks.. I am Diabetic. I have been since I was 19 or so. I am now 30 years old. My wife ( who is Canadian and hates American healthcare as well) had a job that provided insurance for her and myself. She paid for it out of her pay and it was something like 250 bucks a months. She was eventually let go from her job and had to find another job. We all know how hard that is to do right now.

She finally found a job that was almost half her previous salary. It was a job though. It did provide insurance for her at a cost of something like 100 bucks a month. However to cover a spouse was 600 dollars a month. I decided to reject it since the cost was a bit much after she was going on half her salary. I decided I would just go on Oklahoma High Risk Insurance. These guys will cover you if your denied by any insurance carrier ( which in Oklahoma they can deny your or being Diabetic and they do) or if other coverages are quotes are greater than their quote. Their quote is 235 bucks a month. The prescription coverage sucks and it doesnt cover much of your dr visits but hey its insurance in case something happens.

I turn in all my stuff and wait for them to call. They call ask me a few questions and a few days later I get a rejection letter. I call and they say since I was able to get "group" insurance , even though it was over double their quote, they didn't have to cover me . I said well I can't be covered now until next year in open enrollment so can we do something in the mean time. They say once you have been without insurance for 6 months we can cover you. We won't cover your diabetes but will cover everything else.

Seems strange to me .. and it sucks!

[QuadCityImages]

The funny thing is that insurance itself is a form of socialism, but the folks who love our current system don't see it that way. True capitalism would mean making enough money to buy your own medical care directly. Insurance is a group of people banding together, pooling their money, in the belief that it will go to those who need it. But if you expand that idea to 300 million "members" it suddenly becomes evil, somehow...

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Again, not at all what I said and it was clear. You failed miserably.

Insurance was a key component in choosing where I work when at a crossroads and now I'm damn glad I chose the way I did.

Sure I failed cause you are busy patting yourself on the back cause you think you have a magic foolproof formula for health coverage.

You just keep on working hard superstar.